Brooklyn Law Part-time vs. St. John's Full-Time. HELP! Forum

[patrickd139]

I feel bad for whoever is paying 200K+ to finance this.

Indirectly, that would be you. Thank you government backed student loans.

Also, OP: there is no reason at all to attend either of those schools. None.

[locthebloke]

Thanks for the comments... but you guys haven't really helped me. I'm attending no matter what, its just a choice between BLS pt or STJ ft. Can we please move away from how law school is robbing me and the other poor students attending these schools. I'm aware of the employment situation and tuition costs but what I don't know is the pros and cons of the full-time program and the part-time program of these two schools. I would REALLY appreciate some input on what part-time law school is like. I always thought I would be doing this full-time but things change.

What a joke, we ARE helping you. Why are so many people so dead set on law school?? You have other options in life. The pros and cons of the part time and full time programs of these schools are moot. In fact they don't really exist. Asking such a thing is like saying that you have two logs of shit and you're asking the pros and cons of putting the whole thing in your mouth or eating them in pieces.

You will NOT find employment in New York graduating from these schools. Maybe you don't care because it's going to be free? Even so. You STILL have to spend 3 years of your life committed mainly to stressful and tedious piles of work and for no benefit other than you'll personally know a lot about the law. Your JD from these schools won't get you legal work and it won't be good for anything else. I hope you realize that getting a JD can also be detrimental to finding employment in other fields. Lawyers don't tend to get hired for other stuff. Your potential employer will inevitably ask you why you are not in law, etc. JDs close doors, man. You can try to just take it off your resume, but employers tend to look people up online for potential hires. You just can't escape it.

Retake and shoot for better or give up on law school. Seriously. I gave up, and it was hard, but it really is that bad out there, to say nothing of the NY market which is about as saturated and competitive as they come. I'll say it again. Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Yale, Harvard, Penn... all feed into NYC. Heck, even CARDOZO grads will be ahead of you.

The industry itself and the ABA are criminal organizations as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't give these pigs a dime.

[flem]

The pros and cons of the part time and full time programs of these schools are moot. In fact they don't really exist. Asking such a thing is like saying that you have two logs of shit and you're asking the pros and cons of putting the whole thing in your mouth or eating them in pieces.

Outstanding

[Mal Reynolds]

The pros and cons of the part time and full time programs of these schools are moot. In fact they don't really exist. Asking such a thing is like saying that you have two logs of shit and you're asking the pros and cons of putting the whole thing in your mouth or eating them in pieces.

Outstanding

[fanmingrui]

.

[Hova]

thanks everybody. I've made my decision and I'll be attending brooklyn PT this fall. I've been doing my research and I should be able to transfer FT after my first semester. If any BLS students or grads could tell me more about the transfer process, I would be very appreciative. Hopefully I'll be able to graduate in 3 years without any summer courses.

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

[Nova]

If any BLS students or grads could tell me more about the transfer process, I would be very appreciative.

You would probably have more luck with that here, http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=171939

[North]

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

Be sure to come back in a couple years to let us know how it worked out. Best of luck, little brah.

[sunynp]

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

Be sure to come back in a couple years to let us know how it worked out. Best of luck, little brah.

Just remember you can drop out. Don't feel committed to continuing once you have started.

[HarlandBassett]

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

Be sure to come back in a couple years to let us know how it worked out. Best of luck, little brah.

" . . . it's no longer news when a Brooklyn Law School graduate who didn't make the law review ends up at a prestigious firm such as Dewey Ballantine or Cahill. 'Even going deeper in our class, they still can't get as many as they want,' says Joan King, Brooklyn Law School's director of career services. 'I've had more calls this year than in the last three from firms like Cleary Gottlieb and Skadden, complaining they didn't get enough acceptances from our students.'"

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... z1i3rss739

[locthebloke]

thanks everybody. I've made my decision and I'll be attending brooklyn PT this fall. I've been doing my research and I should be able to transfer FT after my first semester. If any BLS students or grads could tell me more about the transfer process, I would be very appreciative. Hopefully I'll be able to graduate in 3 years without any summer courses.

Sigh, you should not choose or go to a school with an expectation that you are going to transfer...

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

Double sigh, best of luck to you... I truly hope you are top of your class... As I said before, Columbia, NYU, Cornell, out of state ivy and even Fordham and Cardozo grads are going to be ahead of you in the interview line.....

[androstan]

Thanks for the comments... but you guys haven't really helped me. I'm attending no matter what, its just a choice between BLS pt or STJ ft. Can we please move away from how law school is robbing me and the other poor students attending these schools. I'm aware of the employment situation and tuition costs but what I don't know is the pros and cons of the full-time program and the part-time program of these two schools. I would REALLY appreciate some input on what part-time law school is like. I always thought I would be doing this full-time but things change.

Are you really?

Brooklyn (LinkRemoved)

Hofstra (LinkRemoved)

St. Johns (LinkRemoved)

[keg411]

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

Be sure to come back in a couple years to let us know how it worked out. Best of luck, little brah.

" . . . it's no longer news when a Brooklyn Law School graduate who didn't make the law review ends up at a prestigious firm such as Dewey Ballantine or Cahill. 'Even going deeper in our class, they still can't get as many as they want,' says Joan King, Brooklyn Law School's director of career services. 'I've had more calls this year than in the last three from firms like Cleary Gottlieb and Skadden, complaining they didn't get enough acceptances from our students.'"

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... z1i3rss739

How old is that article? Considering that firm since merged and then imploded post-merger....

[sunynp]

For everybody that has advised me against going to law school, thanks for the warning but I'll take my chances.

Be sure to come back in a couple years to let us know how it worked out. Best of luck, little brah.

" . . . it's no longer news when a Brooklyn Law School graduate who didn't make the law review ends up at a prestigious firm such as Dewey Ballantine or Cahill. 'Even going deeper in our class, they still can't get as many as they want,' says Joan King, Brooklyn Law School's director of career services. 'I've had more calls this year than in the last three from firms like Cleary Gottlieb and Skadden, complaining they didn't get enough acceptances from our students.'"

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... z1i3rss739

How old is that article? Considering that firm since merged and then imploded post-merger....

Feb 25, 2007



I quoted it below so people can see how much things have changed in ITE.
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... B/70223014

2nd-tier schools merit a 2nd look
As attorney demand explodes, recruiters go beyond top programs; find unexpected talent


Read more: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... z202V2gen9
After his first year of law school at Hofstra University, Steven Metzger had the opportunity to enroll at Boston University.
"A lot of people recommended I transfer, since I'd have a better chance at getting a job offer from a top law firm because of BU's higher pedigree," he recalls.
In the end, Mr. Metzger decided to stay at Hofstra, where he finished in the top 10% of his class.
"I figured being a big fish in a small local pond would be as good as being in the top quarter at a more prestigious school," says Mr. Metzger.
He was proved right when he was offered a summer associate position at Schulte Roth & Zabel, where he is now a second-year associate.
With demand for lawyers skyrocketing, recruiting and hiring on local campuses ranging from New York Law School to Hofstra, Rutgers and St. John's has become as important to many elite firms as visiting higher-echelon schools. Firms are learning to appreciate the background and experience of many students at these second-tier schools.
Revising the search terms
"A few years ago, top firms like Davis Polk and Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom wouldn't have looked at the lower-ranked schools where they are now recruiting seriously," says Margie Grossberg, an executive at legal recruiting firm Major Lindsey & Africa. "Brooklyn Law, Cardozo, St. John's — all the top 20 firms are recruiting at these schools."
In addition to spreading wider nets, big New York firms are showing a willingness to look far deeper into the ranks of second-tier schools.
Placing in the top third of the class at Columbia may still carry more weight with elite firms than a top 10% ranking at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law or New York Law School, recruiters say. But it's no longer news when a Brooklyn Law School graduate who didn't make the law review ends up at a prestigious firm such as Dewey Ballantine or Cahill.
"Even going deeper in our class, they still can't get as many as they want," says Joan King, Brooklyn Law School's director of career services. "I've had more calls this year than in the last three from firms like Cleary Gottlieb and Skadden, complaining they didn't get enough acceptances from our students."
Kurt Rosell, co-chair of the recruiting committee at Schulte Roth & Zabel — a firm that has nearly doubled in size in the past decade — will have multiple summer associates coming from St. John's University School of Law, Hofstra, Cardozo and Brooklyn Law this year.
"Ten years ago, if we gave an offer to someone at a midrank local school, they'd say `yes' immediately. Now, that's not always the case," Mr. Rosell says. "Top students at those schools are getting multiple offers from the best firms."
Broader horizons
Firms still look to the top 10 law schools for the bulk of their hiring, recruiters say. But they consider other factors, too.
"While the school is one indicator of talent, it's not the only one," says David Leinwand, chairman of Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton's recruiting committee. "With the growth of our firm, we'd be foolish to pass up people from other schools."
Mr. Leinwand estimates that 10% to 15% of Cleary Gottlieb's summer associates will come from local second-tier schools this year.
The demand for legal talent is evident in the staffing statistics. The average number of lawyers at a top 20 firm in 1996 was 754. By last year, that number had grown to 1,596, according to Hildebrandt International, a management consulting firm specializing in professional services.
"Shearman & Sterling could take the whole Yale graduating class and still need more," says Joel Henning, a Hildebrandt senior consultant.
The hunger for fresh talent is clearly having an impact on schools. Last year, New York Law saw a 50% increase in the number of second-year students who landed summer associate positions at big firms, notes dean Rick Matasar.
"Students who might not have gotten that second look in ordinary times are getting job offers," Mr. Matasar says.
In addition to dealing with the simple supply-and-demand equation, law firms are learning that the qualifications for becoming a successful lawyer in the 21st century aren't indicated merely by high grades at top schools.
"We've become more flexible in the way we look at potential hires," says Joanne Ollman, director of professional resources at Proskauer Rose, who has been recruiting at top firms for 25 years. "Good grades and a good school still count for a lot, but we're also looking for people who can bring something else to the table."
Experience valued
That something else often comes in the form of practical knowledge. Many students at second-tier schools already have work experience — an increasingly popular selling point as firms seek out attorneys with backgrounds in technology or marketing.
"The average age of our incoming class is 25," says Kurt Rose, director of career services at Cardozo. "Lots of our students have been working for a couple of years. That gives them a different polish and appeal for firms."
In addition, says Hildebrandt's Mr. Henning, associates with previous work experience have a lower attrition rate — a bonus for local law firms.
"One of our biggest criteria when recruiting people is whether they've got what it takes to thrive at a major city firm," says Cleary Gottlieb's Mr. Leinwand.
The big-firm routine is clearly not for everyone, he points out. "Students at New York schools are self-selecting in that way: Many of them understand and want that lifestyle."

Read more: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20 ... z202UEuJJh