Top Law Schools

Sorry for another post, my circumstances have changed once again.
I grew up in Jersey, outside the philly area, I would like to end up in DC at some point. Working locally in NYC/philly for a while wouldn't be too bad though.
As many have mentioned, and I have before, I am a bit concerned with Villanova's ranking drop, I liked their facilities though and the people I've spoken to there are great. Cardozo didn't have the nicest facilities and it felt a bit like a diploma mill, but it's location is prime and they seem to have some good programs. Also I'm jewish so I didn't mind the religious aspect. I had deposited at Villanova and started the housing process, but then Cardozo called asking me to reconsider, bumping up my scholly.
Villanova- Full ride/ no stipulations.
Cardozo- 39k/ yr, top 80% stip, around 32-33K in debt after 3 years before compounding interest. 6k/year in a school loan that is 5% with compounding interest only after graduation. so about 4-5k a year in government loans.

As I have mentioned before, my parents are paying for my living expenses, my debt is tuition alone.

Input appreciated. I only have a few days to make a final decision.

I really don't think Villanova's reputation in the area has dropped with its US News ranking

Cardozo with 39k per year is ok for NYC market. Neither will get you to DC. You'll have to hustle after law school to do that.

I'd take the nova money and run since they are essentially peer TTs in different markets. As long as youre cool with Philly.

top30man wrote:I'd take the nova money and run since they are essentially peer TTs in different markets. As long as youre cool with Philly.

Yup. Philly is an insular market, with a broad 'Nova alumni base. A full scholly with no stips seems to be a nice way to hedge your bets against the lackluster market.

abc12345675 wrote:I really don't think Villanova's reputation in the area has dropped with its US News ranking

I'm trying to logic it out, wont the ranking drop make it pulls in students with lower scores, pulling it even further down?

hob12 wrote:

abc12345675 wrote:I really don't think Villanova's reputation in the area has dropped with its US News ranking

I'm trying to logic it out, wont the ranking drop make it pulls in students with lower scores, pulling it even further down?

You assume that the rankings matter. They don't.

rad lulz wrote:

hob12 wrote:

abc12345675 wrote:I really don't think Villanova's reputation in the area has dropped with its US News ranking

I'm trying to logic it out, wont the ranking drop make it pulls in students with lower scores, pulling it even further down?

You assume that the rankings matter. They don't.

Philly recruiting partners don't pick up us news, see the rankings, pull out their abacus and calculate: "hmm nova dropped 17 spots, that means we hire 1.6 fewer attorneys this year."
Seriously though, my local tts have been free falling in the rankings an local firms still heavily recruit from them.

top30man wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

hob12 wrote:

abc12345675 wrote:I really don't think Villanova's reputation in the area has dropped with its US News ranking

I'm trying to logic it out, wont the ranking drop make it pulls in students with lower scores, pulling it even further down?

You assume that the rankings matter. They don't.

Philly recruiting partners don't pick up us news, see the rankings, pull out their abacus and calculate: "hmm nova dropped 17 spots, that means we hire 1.6 fewer attorneys this year."
Seriously though, my local tts have been free falling in the rankings an local firms still heavily recruit from them.

Dawg I heard employers will flee in DROVES.

dozo. no question. by a mile. thank me later.

rad lulz wrote:

top30man wrote:

hob12 wrote:

abc12345675 wrote:I really don't think Villanova's reputation in the area has dropped with its US News ranking

I'm trying to logic it out, wont the ranking drop make it pulls in students with lower scores, pulling it even further down?

You assume that the rankings matter. They don't.

Philly recruiting partners don't pick up us news, see the rankings, pull out their abacus and calculate: "hmm nova dropped 17 spots, that means we hire 1.6 fewer attorneys this year."

I understand that it doesn't matter in the short term, I've lurked here long enough to know that. But couldn't and argument be made that it will have an impact in the long run? Alumni will become dissuaded, professors will leave for more prestigious institutions, new professors will not be as good, the caliber of student will decrease, over time becoming less reputable, so that carrying the name of that law school will no longer be positive? Idk, maybe I'm over thinking it.

Zionman wrote:dozo. no question. by a mile. thank me later.

care to elaborate?

I think this is over thinking. If this would happen, it wouldn't happen in the three years you are there. And they will likely try pretty hard to gun up their ranking

top30man wrote:I think this is over thinking. If this would happen, it wouldn't happen in the three years you are there. And they will likely try pretty hard to gun up their ranking

Aren't all of the law schools, I could lead to a zero sum gain. I feel like people weigh the name of a law school for a long time after law school.
Once again, over thinking I suppose.
Should I see the Cardozo debt as a big deal? It seems like its really insignificant, but I just might not know enough about debt management to have any idea.

hob12 wrote: I understand that it doesn't matter in the short term, I've lurked here long enough to know that. But couldn't and argument be made that it will have an impact in the long run? Alumni will become dissuaded, professors will leave for more prestigious institutions, new professors will not be as good, the caliber of student will decrease, over time becoming less reputable, so that carrying the name of that law school will no longer be positive? Idk, maybe I'm over thinking it.

If Nova falls too far, they will fire their dean, jack up tuition some more, and use that money to hire more profs, buy high achieving students, and spend lavishly on B.S. That's what happens all the time. Nova will always be Nova, a decent regional school in an oversaturated market that gets a lot of out-of-state play because they have a good college basketball team. Dozo is essentially the same.

The consensus among applicants is trending away from a focus on the rankings. When I applied four years ago, rankings were everything. Now, it seems that people are being much pickier and willing to turn down less $ at a slightly higher ranked school for more money at a lower ranked school. If the current trend holds, the USNWR rankings may be relegated to the dustbin (like their magazine) within a few years.

While I understand both schools are highly regional, which one do you all think have the best name outside their respective regions?

hob12 wrote:While I understand both schools are highly regional, which one do you all think have the best name outside their respective regions?

Both so shitty it's not worth considering.

rad lulz wrote:

hob12 wrote:While I understand both schools are highly regional, which one do you all think have the best name outside their respective regions?

Both so shitty it's not worth considering.

Well I mean there must be some alumni in other areas, does anyone know about their reputation just in general elsewhere?

hob12 wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

hob12 wrote:While I understand both schools are highly regional, which one do you all think have the best name outside their respective regions?

Both so shitty it's not worth considering.

Well I mean there must be some alumni in other areas, does anyone know about their reputation just in general elsewhere?

How did you not understand his answer? I'll quantify it for you.

Cardozo outside NYC: Zero reputation
Nova outside Philly: Fucking zero reputation.

Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted, but you should not be considering going to one of these schools with the intent of travelling with your degree.

emarxnj wrote:

hob12 wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

hob12 wrote:While I understand both schools are highly regional, which one do you all think have the best name outside their respective regions?

Both so shitty it's not worth considering.

Well I mean there must be some alumni in other areas, does anyone know about their reputation just in general elsewhere?

How did you not understand his answer? I'll quantify it for you.

Cardozo outside NYC: Zero reputation
Nova outside Philly: Fucking zero reputation.

Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted, but you should not be considering going to one of these schools with the intent of travelling with your degree.

Well I am in a bit of a pickle seeing as those are the only two schools I got into that are worth considering. I do understand how difficult it is to move around from a regional school.

Neither will get you DC. Do you want NYC? Pick 'Dozo. Do you want Philly? Pick 'Nova. Do you want DC? Retake and apply to better schools.

I chose 'Nova in the poll because you're a native of the area, it's free, and there are no stips.

InGoodFaith wrote:Neither will get you DC. Do you want NYC? Pick 'Dozo. Do you want Philly? Pick 'Nova. Do you want DC? Retake and apply to better schools.

I chose 'Nova in the poll because you're a native of the area, it's free, and there are no stips.

Not really sure which one I'd prefer which is why I think I'm running into this issue.
Is a top 80% stip something to be concerned about, I mean I tend to be a very diligent, hard worker and I always found that stip reasonable. But my friend in law school keeps telling me "somebody has to be at the bottom so stop being so cocky." My paranoia is creeping up.

hob12 wrote: Not really sure which one I'd prefer which is why I think I'm running into this issue.
Is a top 80% stip something to be concerned about, I mean I tend to be a very diligent, hard worker and I always found that stip reasonable. But my friend in law school keeps telling me "somebody has to be at the bottom so stop being so cocky." My paranoia is creeping up.

I feel like being in the bottom 20% at this school would be unwise even if you still had the scholarship...

Band A Long wrote:

hob12 wrote: Not really sure which one I'd prefer which is why I think I'm running into this issue.
Is a top 80% stip something to be concerned about, I mean I tend to be a very diligent, hard worker and I always found that stip reasonable. But my friend in law school keeps telling me "somebody has to be at the bottom so stop being so cocky." My paranoia is creeping up.

I feel like being in the bottom 20% at this school would be unwise even if you still had the scholarship...

I agree, mostly because I feel like if I'm at the bottom, I'm clearly doing something wrong, and law might have been a bad idea IMO.
Still interested in hearing more opinions.

hob12 wrote:

Band A Long wrote:

hob12 wrote: Not really sure which one I'd prefer which is why I think I'm running into this issue.
Is a top 80% stip something to be concerned about, I mean I tend to be a very diligent, hard worker and I always found that stip reasonable. But my friend in law school keeps telling me "somebody has to be at the bottom so stop being so cocky." My paranoia is creeping up.

I feel like being in the bottom 20% at this school would be unwise even if you still had the scholarship...

I agree, mostly because I feel like if I'm at the bottom, I'm clearly doing something wrong, and law might have been a bad idea IMO.
Still interested in hearing more opinions.

I don't think people are concerned about the stip in voting for 'Nova.
You're from the Philly area, you would be cool with working in Philly, you would have zero debt from the Philly schools = go to the Philly school.

No one gives a crap about the rankings out of either school. They'll both give you the same types of job opportunities. Go to 'Nova unless you really really want NYC (and you don't seem to really really want NYC).