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A friend has been getting an amazing amount of email from tier-4 law schools (especially Regent and Dayton). The emails usually tell him that his academic record is hard to ignore or they are amazed by his academic performance, then beg him to apply. The problem is that he has a terrible academic record. His LSAT is 135 and his GPA is 2.8, which means that these tier-4 schools are clearly full of crap. I have done some research and heard two different theories: (1) Tier-4 law schools are so hard up for money that they are willing to accept anyone for the MONEY; (2) Law schools want people to apply for the express purpose of rejecting their application so their admissions will look more selective. Which is it, or am I way off? I hate to see my friend get hurt either way.

TheJanitor wrote:I have done some research and heard two different theories: (1) Tier-4 law schools are so hard up for money that they are willing to accept anyone for the MONEY; (2) Law schools want people to apply for the express purpose of rejecting their application so their admissions will look more selective. Which is it, or am I way off? I hate to see my friend get hurt either way.

Both theories are correct. What is definitely not true is that your friend has a good academic record or is likely to be successful in a legal career.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:

TheJanitor wrote:I have done some research and heard two different theories: (1) Tier-4 law schools are so hard up for money that they are willing to accept anyone for the MONEY; (2) Law schools want people to apply for the express purpose of rejecting their application so their admissions will look more selective. Which is it, or am I way off? I hate to see my friend get hurt either way.

Both theories are correct. What is definitely not true is that your friend has a good academic record or is likely to be successful in a legal career.

I know that and you know that, but it is really hard to tell a friend that he doesn't belong in the legal profession.

TheJanitor wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:

TheJanitor wrote:I have done some research and heard two different theories: (1) Tier-4 law schools are so hard up for money that they are willing to accept anyone for the MONEY; (2) Law schools want people to apply for the express purpose of rejecting their application so their admissions will look more selective. Which is it, or am I way off? I hate to see my friend get hurt either way.

Both theories are correct. What is definitely not true is that your friend has a good academic record or is likely to be successful in a legal career.

I know that and you know that, but it is really hard to tell a friend that he doesn't belong in the legal profession.

The 2.8 Gpa really isn't what I would be worried about. I would worry about that 135 LSAT that could possibly indicate a terrible time in law school.

He is exactly the kind of student those schools target. If they can get him to apply, it's a win-win situation. If they reject him, he boosts their acceptance rate; if they accept him, he'll be one of the few who pay full-tuition. I'm sure all of these schools accept a few non-URMs below both medians for that reason.

Alternatively, perhaps they're so desperate this cycle, since application numbers are so far down, that they will truly accept anyone with a pulse / student loan access - that was always a bit of an exaggeration in past cycles.

AntipodeanPhil wrote:He is exactly the kind of student those schools target. If they can get him to apply, it's a win-win situation. If they reject him, he boosts their acceptance rate; if they accept him, he'll be one of the few who pay full-tuition. I'm sure all of these schools accept a few non-URMs below both medians for that reason.

Alternatively, perhaps they're so desperate this cycle, since application numbers are so far down, that they will truly accept anyone with a pulse / student loan access - that was always a bit of an exaggeration in past cycles.

They're getting close:

http://dayton.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Tiago Splitter wrote:

AntipodeanPhil wrote:He is exactly the kind of student those schools target. If they can get him to apply, it's a win-win situation. If they reject him, he boosts their acceptance rate; if they accept him, he'll be one of the few who pay full-tuition. I'm sure all of these schools accept a few non-URMs below both medians for that reason.

Alternatively, perhaps they're so desperate this cycle, since application numbers are so far down, that they will truly accept anyone with a pulse / student loan access - that was always a bit of an exaggeration in past cycles.

They're getting close:

http://dayton.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Yeah, down 20%-30% at least on LSN from the past few years.

The sad thing is they would probably take him and that would be worse for him than getting rejected.

Is he retaking? Or applying to these schools?

Tom Joad wrote:The sad thing is they would probably take him and that would be worse for him than getting rejected.

Lol true.

My dad is an administrator with a university that also has a T4 law school. He told me, after having a conversation with the dean the other day, that they "can't give it away."

He says they're making huge cuts to the school and there has been some talk of closing it. FWIW he thinks it's a myth that these school are big moneymakers.

minnbills wrote:My dad is an administrator with a university that also has a T4 law school. He told me, after having a conversation with the dean the other day, that they "can't give it away."

He says they're making huge cuts to the school and there has been some talk of closing it. FWIW he thinks it's a myth that these school are big moneymakers.

My faith in humanity, expressed as a percentage before reading this post: .01%

My faith in humanity, expressed as a percentage after reading this post: 1.01%

I get all the same Regent emails, FWIW. I've received literally a couple dozen from them at this point since applications opened in September. My assumption is that they spam those emails to anybody whose email they've gotten their hands on, regardless of numbers.

Mista Bojangles wrote:I get all the same Regent emails, FWIW. I've received literally a couple dozen from them at this point since applications opened in September. My assumption is that they spam those emails to anybody whose email they've gotten their hands on, regardless of numbers.

True. I got 20ish from Valparaiso before realized I should have unsubscribed a long time ago.

I'm still getting emails from Regent and my cycle was last year.

Which probably says as much about my sheer laziness as about their persistence.

Haven't received a Cooley mailer in a while.

Phoenix school of law recently sent out 32k/year offers for people who didn't even apply (regular tuition is 36k/year).

tyro wrote:Phoenix school of law recently sent out 32k/year offers for people who didn't even apply (regular tuition is 36k/year).

That's not bad if you have a well-connected (family) job lined up.

nmop_apisdn wrote:

tyro wrote:Phoenix school of law recently sent out 32k/year offers for people who didn't even apply (regular tuition is 36k/year).

That's not bad if you have a well-connected (family) job lined up.

Well..I didn't read the terms & conditions. I consider those types of emails as comparable to the random online casinos that send me offers for "free chips".

I wonder what the sTTTips are and what portion of the class loses their scholarship and has to pay the extra 63k. Thats more than quintuple.

Nova wrote:

Mista Bojangles wrote:I get all the same Regent emails, FWIW. I've received literally a couple dozen from them at this point since applications opened in September. My assumption is that they spam those emails to anybody whose email they've gotten their hands on, regardless of numbers.

True. I got 20ish from Valparaiso before realized I should have unsubscribed a long time ago.

You can... unsubscribe? ohgodwhy

I get an email from this school almost every 3 weeks. Did you know they have 75% California Bar passage for first time test takers?



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PolySuyGuy wrote:I get an email from this school almost every 3 weeks. Did you know they have 75% California Bar passage for first time test takers?



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Is 75% low or high to you? California's bar is notoriously hard. 75% is actually higher than the state average.
http://abovethelaw.com/2012/01/californ ... s-deepens/

Not that I would advocate attending an online, ABA-unaccredited law school, of course.

CSL's passage rate probably benefits from how easy it is to drop out of an online school if you're not doing well. And the school may only encourage the best students to take the bar.

I at one time considered a Tier 4 school because they offered a 3 year full scholarship.

MormonChristian wrote:I at one time considered a Tier 4 school because they offered a 3 year full scholarship.

Are you looking for disparagement because you considered it, or congratulations for not taking it?