Top Law Schools

Any suggestions ... Penn state is giving me very little money louola is giving me none ... personal circumstances aside which one would you suggest?

How much money at psu? Where are you from?

3k ... buffalo

These are terrible options anyway, especially at those prices. Retake or don't go.

You're looking at over 210k debt from PSU for --LinkRemoved--

And you're looking at about the same debt from LUC for --LinkRemoved--

Both seem crazy to me.

But that said, you cannot take personal circumstances out of this. These schools have nothing in common. One is a midwestern school and one is an east coast school. Neither have significant reach, and they don't overlap in placement locations. One is much larger than the other. One is in Chicago, another is in a college town.

Take it from someone with a lot of debt @ a T2 (not sticker, but not good). A T2 at sticker price is the worst choice you will ever make. Oh, well except for choosing a TTT or TTTT at the same price.

LUC gives something like 92 percent of its students grants/scholarships. I would imagine you will be eligible for 12K a year in grant money from them at least. so 61K x3= 183k -36k= 147k which with interest and origination fees comes out to about 165kish I think plus whatever tuition goes up by.

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tfleming09 wrote:These are terrible options anyway, especially at those prices. Retake or don't go.

+1

Also, I went to Loyola for undergrad and have a ton of friends at the law school now. The job situation is bad, like really bad. Seriously if you're a LUC student you have roughly 20 schools of students that are ahead of you for jobs in the Chicago market.

i appreciate everybody's input ... but there are 200 law schools in the US and if everybody could get the scores to get into the top 15 i am sure they would. I have my reasons for not getting into top 15 even though objectively I can compete with folks going to those schools ...

but my situation is such that loyola or penn state are the two i need to pick from

penn state is a 1st tier school nationally while loyola isnt ... however loyola is ranked better by us news than penn state this year. law firms rank both schools equally but loyola students supposedly get jobs easier than penn state as soon as they graduate ... i already have what i need to get a job in the chicago market post graduation so i am not particularly concerned about that ... i have more family near penn state but i still can get into a chicago firm if i wanted too ...

so give the above ... if u had to pick one or the other which one would it be?

I wouldn't incur 200K worth of debt at most places, but I EXTRA wouldn't do it at KidFucking University.

Still, retake or don't go unless you like the idea of paying back 200K on 50K a year if you land a legal job at all.

pkrajoo wrote:i appreciate everybody's input ... but there are 200 law schools in the US and if everybody could get the scores to get into the top 15 i am sure they would. I have my reasons for not getting into top 15 even though objectively I can compete with folks going to those schools ...

but my situation is such that loyola or penn state are the two i need to pick from

penn state is a 1st tier school nationally while loyola isnt ... however loyola is ranked better by us news than penn state this year. law firms rank both schools equally but loyola students supposedly get jobs easier than penn state as soon as they graduate ... i already have what i need to get a job in the chicago market post graduation so i am not particularly concerned about that ... i have more family near penn state but i still can get into a chicago firm if i wanted too ...

so give the above ... if u had to pick one or the other which one would it be?

This doesn't make any sense. If you have the ability to compete with top students than retake. Why do you need to go now?
There are 200 law schools, but that doesn't mean there should be 200. Many of these schools exist because people buy into the scam or think they are the exception to the rule.

pkrajoo wrote:i appreciate everybody's input ... but there are 200 law schools in the US and if everybody could get the scores to get into the top 15 i am sure they would. I have my reasons for not getting into top 15 even though objectively I can compete with folks going to those schools ...

but my situation is such that loyola or penn state are the two i need to pick from

penn state is a 1st tier school nationally while loyola isnt ... however loyola is ranked better by us news than penn state this year. law firms rank both schools equally but loyola students supposedly get jobs easier than penn state as soon as they graduate ... i already have what i need to get a job in the chicago market post graduation so i am not particularly concerned about that ... i have more family near penn state but i still can get into a chicago firm if i wanted too ...

so give the above ... if u had to pick one or the other which one would it be?

Exactly none of this makes sense.

based on the available jobs there should only be 40 schools then every educated lawyer would have a job ... but that does not foster competition nor create the need for the students who get into the law schools to be the best lawyers they can be .... not to mention that would mean that every student who goes to law school cannot plan to do anything but law otherwise there will be more jobs that students... and both you and I know that there has been numerous discussions about whether or not the lsat is really determining if a student will succeed in law school. So far law schools are able to rely on those results the most but not because they are the best ... furthermore, my case aside, there are exceptions to unfortunately end up in schools ranked lower than 40 .... some people are simply less academically inclined but have other skills to compensate ...

due to personal reasons i am choosing not to re write ... i now seem to have the option of champaign as well ... but i still would like to make a informed decision of which one of these two schools would have been the better option

tfleming09 wrote: KidFucking University.

Thanks for that.


OP: PSU rising 3L here if you want to PM me with questions about the school.

jbarl1 wrote:Thanks for that.


OP: PSU rising 3L here if you want to PM me with questions about the school.

my b broseph

Do you have a job? How much debt are you in? What about your class?

i am not arguing that the loan amount might be big or the job situation today is dire .. but that is not the whole picture ... it takes several different factors that decide the future of ur career ... the debt is an investment ... nobody knows what the economy is going to be like in 3-4 years from now ... a law degree can be used for so much more than practicing law ... and additionally money is not my end goal .. i do not need to pay it of in 2 years or 4 ... and in the grand scheme of life 200k is not a whole lot ... if u do the math of how much u spend on houses, cars, entertainment, kids and retirement ... a 200k investment will become insignificant ...

pkrajoo wrote:i am not arguing that the loan amount might be big or the job situation today is dire .. but that is not the whole picture ... it takes several different factors that decide the future of ur career ... the debt is an investment ... nobody knows what the economy is going to be like in 3-4 years from now ... a law degree can be used for so much more than practicing law ... and additionally money is not my end goal .. i do not need to pay it of in 2 years or 4 ... and in the grand scheme of life 200k is not a whole lot ... if u do the math of how much u spend on houses, cars, entertainment, kids and retirement ... a 200k investment will become insignificant ...

There's just one difference though: that 200K "investment" is going to prevent you from doing things like owning a house, buying cars, having entertainment, having kids, and saving for retirement.

Unless you want to go on IBR and create a ticking time bomb of tax obligations.

And what good is a law degree if you're not practicing law with it?

Have you actually thought this through? Is there a compelling reason you can't retake?

tfleming09 wrote:

jbarl1 wrote:Thanks for that.


OP: PSU rising 3L here if you want to PM me with questions about the school.

my b broseph

Do you have a job? How much debt are you in? What about your class?

Paying jobs both summers in my area of interest.

I will graduate with less than $70,000 from undergrad and law.

I can only answer questions about my situation. I know PSU isn't the right choice for everyone, and I know that a high level of debt isn't a great idea from a T2 school, but I like to offer my experience/perspective when I can.

pkrajoo wrote:i appreciate everybody's input ... but there are 200 law schools in the US and if everybody could get the scores to get into the top 15 i am sure they would. I have my reasons for not getting into top 15 even though objectively I can compete with folks going to those schools ...

but my situation is such that loyola or penn state are the two i need to pick from

penn state is a 1st tier school nationally while loyola isnt ... however loyola is ranked better by us news than penn state this year. law firms rank both schools equally but loyola students supposedly get jobs easier than penn state as soon as they graduate ... i already have what i need to get a job in the chicago market post graduation so i am not particularly concerned about that ... i have more family near penn state but i still can get into a chicago firm if i wanted too ...

so give the above ... if u had to pick one or the other which one would it be?

This makes not a bit of difference. Which one of these schools pans out in the long run will have NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with PSU's rank as a 1st tier nationally over Loyola this year.

If you want to work in Pennsylvania go to PSU. If you want to work in the mid-west (but not necessarily Chicago) go to Loyola. If you are fine working in either the midwest or along the East coast then go to the school that will leave you the least in the hole after 3 years.

If you can get into a chicago firm if you wanted to, and you have the GPA/LSAT to get into Loyola, then apply to Depaul or John Marshall and try to milk them for a full ride plus stipend and then waltz into the firm in Chicago.

2012JayDee wrote:

pkrajoo wrote:i appreciate everybody's input ... but there are 200 law schools in the US and if everybody could get the scores to get into the top 15 i am sure they would. I have my reasons for not getting into top 15 even though objectively I can compete with folks going to those schools ...

but my situation is such that loyola or penn state are the two i need to pick from

penn state is a 1st tier school nationally while loyola isnt ... however loyola is ranked better by us news than penn state this year. law firms rank both schools equally but loyola students supposedly get jobs easier than penn state as soon as they graduate ... i already have what i need to get a job in the chicago market post graduation so i am not particularly concerned about that ... i have more family near penn state but i still can get into a chicago firm if i wanted too ...

so give the above ... if u had to pick one or the other which one would it be?

This makes not a bit of difference. Which one of these schools pans out in the long run will have NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with PSU's rank as a 1st tier nationally over Loyola this year.

If you want to work in Pennsylvania go to PSU. If you want to work in the mid-west (but not necessarily Chicago) go to Loyola. If you are fine working in either the midwest or along the East coast then go to the school that will leave you the least in the hole after 3 years.

If you can get into a chicago firm if you wanted to, and you have the GPA/LSAT to get into Loyola, then apply to Depaul or John Marshall and try to milk them for a full ride plus stipend and then waltz into the firm in Chicago.

PSU is a pretty awful choice for PA. Pitt and Temple/Villanova are better TT choices in their respective cities. The poster above may be the exception but as a whole I'd avoid.

top30man wrote:

2012JayDee wrote:

pkrajoo wrote:i appreciate everybody's input ... but there are 200 law schools in the US and if everybody could get the scores to get into the top 15 i am sure they would. I have my reasons for not getting into top 15 even though objectively I can compete with folks going to those schools ...

but my situation is such that loyola or penn state are the two i need to pick from

penn state is a 1st tier school nationally while loyola isnt ... however loyola is ranked better by us news than penn state this year. law firms rank both schools equally but loyola students supposedly get jobs easier than penn state as soon as they graduate ... i already have what i need to get a job in the chicago market post graduation so i am not particularly concerned about that ... i have more family near penn state but i still can get into a chicago firm if i wanted too ...

so give the above ... if u had to pick one or the other which one would it be?

This makes not a bit of difference. Which one of these schools pans out in the long run will have NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, to do with PSU's rank as a 1st tier nationally over Loyola this year.

If you want to work in Pennsylvania go to PSU. If you want to work in the mid-west (but not necessarily Chicago) go to Loyola. If you are fine working in either the midwest or along the East coast then go to the school that will leave you the least in the hole after 3 years.

If you can get into a chicago firm if you wanted to, and you have the GPA/LSAT to get into Loyola, then apply to Depaul or John Marshall and try to milk them for a full ride plus stipend and then waltz into the firm in Chicago.

PSU is a pretty awful choice for PA. Pitt and Temple/Villanova are better TT choices in their respective cities. The poster above may be the exception but as a whole I'd avoid.

My understanding is that if you go to PSU you have your best shot in places like Harrisburg. Not Philly and Pittsburgh. Just know that. Because there is a big difference between living in Harrisburg, PA and Chicago

You have current law students telling you not to go. You have one of the founders of Law School Transparency (jenesaislaw) telling you not to go. He probably knows as much about legal employment as anyone on TLS. You have a student at a LUC peer school (barbell) telling you not to go.

And yet here you are forging ahead with the worst decision of your life. Awfully hard to feel sorry for people when they knowingly and willingly make idiotic decisions.

Enjoy debtors prison.