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Go.

What a novel and interesting topic that hasn't been answered before in threads that can't be found via the search function.

Yeah. I mean, there's still risk, but generally it's worthwhile.

Depends.

what is COA at NYU for 3 years (generally curious about the high living expenses of NYC)

AssumptionRequired wrote:what is COA at NYU for 3 years (generally curious about the high living expenses of NYC)

according to law school transparency Non-Discounted Cost Class of 2015: $272,724 --LinkRemoved--

according to the NYU fin aid email i got its a little closer to 210k but i think that is because they dont take debt and interest into account but i could be completely guessing

There's probably an 80% chance it will be more than worth it, and a 10-20% chance you'll be in big trouble. A lot of people on this board seem comfortable with those odds, and it is certainly a reasonable decision to make. Personally I'm not sure I could go through with it, but I guess I'm slightly more risk-averse than many. That being said, I'll be taking out around 140k for a CCN, but at that level of debt I can lean on my SO if I graduate with a 50k a year non-LRAP job.

Also, check this out for determining the total debt you'll be facing when you graduate:
--LinkRemoved--

izy223 wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:what is COA at NYU for 3 years (generally curious about the high living expenses of NYC)

according to law school transparency Non-Discounted Cost Class of 2015: $272,724 --LinkRemoved--

according to the NYU fin aid email i got its a little closer to 210k but i think that is because they dont take debt and interest into account but i could be completely guessing

don't know if i trust those LST numbers. they quote Chicago COA as more expensive than NYC...

otnemem wrote:There's probably an 80% chance it will be more than worth it, and a 10-20% chance you'll be in big trouble. A lot of people on this board seem comfortable with those odds, and it is certainly a reasonable decision to make. Personally I'm not sure I could go through with it, but I guess I'm slightly more risk-averse than many. That being said, I'll be taking out around 140k for a CCN, but at that level of debt I can lean on my SO if I graduate with a 50k a year non-LRAP job.

Also, check this out for determining the total debt you'll be facing when you graduate:
--LinkRemoved--

Even if the economy stays on the upswing and you hit that 80% chance you won't even have the principal on 270k paid down to 200k by the time most are out of big law on the 10 year plan. Live like a pauper and maybe have it to 180k. JFC

Just because people do go at sticker doesn't mean it's smart.

TUP wrote:

otnemem wrote:There's probably an 80% chance it will be more than worth it, and a 10-20% chance you'll be in big trouble. A lot of people on this board seem comfortable with those odds, and it is certainly a reasonable decision to make. Personally I'm not sure I could go through with it, but I guess I'm slightly more risk-averse than many. That being said, I'll be taking out around 140k for a CCN, but at that level of debt I can lean on my SO if I graduate with a 50k a year non-LRAP job.

Also, check this out for determining the total debt you'll be facing when you graduate:
--LinkRemoved--

Even if the economy stays on the upswing and you hit that 80% chance you won't even have the principal on 270k paid down to 200k by the time most are out of big law on the 10 year plan. Live like a pauper and maybe have it to 180k. JFC

Just because people do go at sticker doesn't mean it's smart.

I'm a 0L and admittedly no expert on compounding interest and repayment plans, but I'm pretty sure something went very, very wrong somewhere along the way in your calculations. That, or one of us is incredibly confused about how IBR works. How do these numbers make any sense??

It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

Even if the economy stays on the upswing and you hit that 80% chance you won't even have the principal on 270k paid down to 200k by the time most are out of big law on the 10 year plan. Live like a pauper and maybe have it to 180k. JFC

You make a relevant point that too few people think about before they enter school, but as others have pointed out, I think you overstate it.

Big law in NYC is about 95k a year or so after taxes. Its not unreasonable to pay 50k a year to the loan and live off of 45k (not a ton of money in NYC but not living like a pauper in my opinion). Both those numbers bump up as you go up the pay scale. Therefore, you can pay off that amount of debt in around 6 years if you're able to stay in a firm that long, which is certainly not a given. More likely you last 3-4 years, which would leave you with a significant but probably manageable amount of debt. Most people leaving big law take a significant pay cut, but still bring home enough in their next job to service that type of a loan.

Nevertheless, I completely agree that getting biglaw does not automatically make sticker worth it. NYU at full cost is a gamble that will pay off for a majority of the people who take it, but its still a very large risk, one that I admit I would likely not take.

TUP wrote:It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

Ahh, it's not my math, but my biglaw lingo that's lacking. This makes a lot more sense to me over 3 years, I just hadn't heard "10-year plan" used this way before.

otnemem wrote:

Even if the economy stays on the upswing and you hit that 80% chance you won't even have the principal on 270k paid down to 200k by the time most are out of big law on the 10 year plan. Live like a pauper and maybe have it to 180k. JFC

You make a relevant point that too few people think about before they enter school, but as others have pointed out, I think you overstate it.

Big law in NYC is about 95k a year or so after taxes. Its not unreasonable to pay 50k a year to the loan and live off of 45k (not a ton of money in NYC but not living like a pauper in my opinion). Both those numbers bump up as you go up the pay scale. Therefore, you can pay off that amount of debt in around 6 years if you're able to stay in a firm that long, which is certainly not a given. More likely you last 3-4 years, which would leave you with a significant but probably manageable amount of debt. Most people leaving big law take a significant pay cut, but still bring home enough in their next job to service that type of a loan.

Nevertheless, I completely agree that getting biglaw does not automatically make sticker worth it. NYU at full cost is a gamble that will pay off for a majority of the people who take it, but its still a very large risk, one that I admit I would likely not take.

Just something to think about I guess. 4k payment is almost 50k per year, and that leaves almost 180k left on a 270k loan balance after 3 years. After 3 years of law school, living like a student for 3-5 more certainly takes some discipline when $$$ are on the table from a lower T14.

chipcope wrote:

TUP wrote:It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

Ahh, it's not my math, but my biglaw lingo that's lacking. This makes a lot more sense to me over 3 years, I just hadn't heard "10-year plan" used this way before.

Yeah, 3 years is thrown around on here as the median length of a big law stint.

19871987 wrote:Go.

If NYU at sticker isn't worth it, then neither is Michigan w/$30k.

I've spent my life avoiding risk and I'm not particularly happy with where it's gotten me. Time to go all in @ NYU!

otnemem wrote:

Even if the economy stays on the upswing and you hit that 80% chance you won't even have the principal on 270k paid down to 200k by the time most are out of big law on the 10 year plan. Live like a pauper and maybe have it to 180k. JFC

You make a relevant point that too few people think about before they enter school, but as others have pointed out, I think you overstate it.

Big law in NYC is about 95k a year or so after taxes. Its not unreasonable to pay 50k a year to the loan and live off of 45k (not a ton of money in NYC but not living like a pauper in my opinion). Both those numbers bump up as you go up the pay scale. Therefore, you can pay off that amount of debt in around 6 years if you're able to stay in a firm that long, which is certainly not a given. More likely you last 3-4 years, which would leave you with a significant but probably manageable amount of debt. Most people leaving big law take a significant pay cut, but still bring home enough in their next job to service that type of a loan.
Nevertheless, I completely agree that getting biglaw does not automatically make sticker worth it. NYU at full cost is a gamble that will pay off for a majority of the people who take it, but its still a very large risk, one that I admit I would likely not take.

I hope this doesnt go too off topic but I had a question about this. What do top in house positions pay? Seems like we have very little data about that on this site. There is also "midlaw" which many people dont talk about. Getting a position there, in a secondary market, could get you making well over 200k and people seem to stay much longer.

AssumptionRequired wrote:I hope this doesnt go too off topic but I had a question about this. What do top in house positions pay? Seems like we have very little data about that on this site. There is also "midlaw" which many people dont talk about. Getting a position there, in a secondary market, could get you making well over 200k and people seem to stay much longer.

http://www.roberthalflegal.com/FreeResources

TUP wrote:

otnemem wrote:There's probably an 80% chance it will be more than worth it, and a 10-20% chance you'll be in big trouble. A lot of people on this board seem comfortable with those odds, and it is certainly a reasonable decision to make. Personally I'm not sure I could go through with it, but I guess I'm slightly more risk-averse than many. That being said, I'll be taking out around 140k for a CCN, but at that level of debt I can lean on my SO if I graduate with a 50k a year non-LRAP job.

Also, check this out for determining the total debt you'll be facing when you graduate:
--LinkRemoved--

Even if the economy stays on the upswing and you hit that 80% chance you won't even have the principal on 270k paid down to 200k by the time most are out of big law on the 10 year plan. Live like a pauper and maybe have it to 180k. JFC

Just because people do go at sticker doesn't mean it's smart.

Pay down faster.

TUP wrote:It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

You're not living like pauper on $4,500/month after taxes.

TUP wrote:

chipcope wrote:

TUP wrote:It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

Ahh, it's not my math, but my biglaw lingo that's lacking. This makes a lot more sense to me over 3 years, I just hadn't heard "10-year plan" used this way before.

Yeah, 3 years is thrown around on here as the median length of a big law stint.

Because people leave/burn out. Don't be one of those people.

On midlaw in a secondary, many seem to have a lower base with extremely compressed raises, so is 200k really likely?

bk187 wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:I hope this doesnt go too off topic but I had a question about this. What do top in house positions pay? Seems like we have very little data about that on this site. There is also "midlaw" which many people dont talk about. Getting a position there, in a secondary market, could get you making well over 200k and people seem to stay much longer.

http://www.roberthalflegal.com/FreeResources

This kind of answers my question. This seems like it is just the average. I am more wondering the difference from top Biglaw (V5 or w/e) to a good in house position. Do good in house positions pay well over 200,000 on average?

rayiner wrote:

TUP wrote:It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

You're not living like pauper on $4,500/month after taxes.

Good to hear. I haven't lived in NYC, but thought half that's gone for a decent apartment. Granted one could go roommates/commute.

rayiner wrote:

TUP wrote:

chipcope wrote:

TUP wrote:It's just 10 year amort on 270k at 7.5%. Payment is about 3200. Live like a pauper and pay down 4k a month and you're just under 180k at the 3 years.

Ahh, it's not my math, but my biglaw lingo that's lacking. This makes a lot more sense to me over 3 years, I just hadn't heard "10-year plan" used this way before.

Yeah, 3 years is thrown around on here as the median length of a big law stint.

Because people leave/burn out. Don't be one of those people.

That's the goal.