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My parents said they would pay my rent and living expenses either way so the higher prices in nyc are not something I need to consider. I have to decide by tomorrow so if anyone could help me ASAP that would be great. Thanks!!!

Is 'dozo at sticker? Is your Hofstra scholarship 20k for one year or 20k spread over 3 years? Stipulations on scholarships?

yes, dozo is at sticker, and my hofstra scholarship is 20,000/year but I have to remain in the top 40% of my class to keep it after the first year, however I don't see this being a problem because if I'm not in the top 40% of my class at a school like Hofstra I would probably drop out because getting a job in that scenario would be very difficult. So to answer your question, yes, it is per year. Thanks!

Allow me to say it before someone else does, retake.....

That said, between the two I would do Dozo part time and work. I know the May program transitions into full time in 2L but at least you could keep your debt down some. Dozo gives you a better chance at finding a job and Hofstra is STILL ridiculously expensive for what you get even knocking of 20K.

I wouldn't do either unless they were funded by means other than loans..... Just me though.

JCFindley wrote:Allow me to say it before someone else does, retake.....

That said, between the two I would do Dozo part time and work. I know the May program transitions into full time in 2L but at least you could keep your debt down some. Dozo gives you a better chance at finding a job and Hofstra is STILL ridiculously expensive for what you get even knocking of 20K.

I wouldn't do either unless they were funded by means other than loans..... Just me though.

Thanks for the advice. Retaking isn't an option though, my lsats were decent (162). I really don't think I could do any better. My UGPA is very low(below 3.0).

futurelawyer12 wrote:

JCFindley wrote:Allow me to say it before someone else does, retake.....

That said, between the two I would do Dozo part time and work. I know the May program transitions into full time in 2L but at least you could keep your debt down some. Dozo gives you a better chance at finding a job and Hofstra is STILL ridiculously expensive for what you get even knocking of 20K.

I wouldn't do either unless they were funded by means other than loans..... Just me though.

Thanks for the advice. Retaking isn't an option though, my lsats were decent (162). I really don't think I could do any better. My UGPA is very low(below 3.0).

I think Cardozo will give you a much better shot at employment for not much more money and you can work part time that first year to keep the debt down.....

JCFindley wrote:

futurelawyer12 wrote:

JCFindley wrote:Allow me to say it before someone else does, retake.....

That said, between the two I would do Dozo part time and work. I know the May program transitions into full time in 2L but at least you could keep your debt down some. Dozo gives you a better chance at finding a job and Hofstra is STILL ridiculously expensive for what you get even knocking of 20K.

I wouldn't do either unless they were funded by means other than loans..... Just me though.

Thanks for the advice. Retaking isn't an option though, my lsats were decent (162). I really don't think I could do any better. My UGPA is very low(below 3.0).

I think Cardozo will give you a much better shot at employment for not much more money and you can work part time that first year to keep the debt down.....

Just note that their May program is a day program so working a steady job will be pretty tough as you'll be in classes all week during the day.

Retake. If you can get to the high 160s, you have a shot at BU, BC, Illinois, etc.

Thanks to everyone who is saying retake I appreciate the advice but I don't want to do that. So I know my options are not the best and some people would rather retake and apply next year that is not an option for me. I also am not leaving new York. So although retaking may be the best option given the job opportunities in the law field right now, I just want to know between the two options I gave. Thank you

futurelawyer12 wrote:Thanks to everyone who is saying retake I appreciate the advice but I don't want to do that. So I know my options are not the best and some people would rather retake and apply next year that is not an option for me.

Why?

36% of Hofstra grads had no long term employment (OF ANY KIND) 9 months after graduation. Cardozo had 39% with no long term employment (OF ANY KIND) 9 months after graduation. These are abysmal placement stats and should terrify the shit out of you.

Source

Retake or don't go due to bad job prospects.

Once again...I am not retaking so it's either Cardozo, hofstra or neither can be a third option of that's everyone's opinion. But writing neither is wasting both of our times as I am not doing that. I am aware of how bad the market is and how hard it is to get a job and that any law school not in t14 is risky these days. But I also am aware that getting a job is not completely impossible and if I don't have the gpa necessary (3.5 at least id probably need higher) I'm dropping out. Also I would rather take the year at one of these places and transfer to somewhere better than start from scratch with the lsats. So while I appreciate it, saying retake is not helpful.

futurelawyer12 wrote:Once again...I am not retaking so it's either Cardozo, hofstra or neither can be a third option of that's everyone's opinion. But writing neither is wasting both of our times as I am not doing that. I am aware of how bad the market is and how hard it is to get a job and that any law school not in t14 is risky these days. But I also am aware that getting a job is not completely impossible and if I don't have the gpa necessary (3.5 at least id probably need higher) I'm dropping out. Also I would rather take the year at one of these places and transfer to somewhere better than start from scratch with the lsats. So while I appreciate it, saying retake is not helpful.

35-40% chance of landing unemployed from these schools. Let that sink in. 60-40 shot. And over half of that 60% employment are jobs that don't justify the cost of attendance.

Additionally, it's way, WAY easier to study and retake the LSAT and do better and land yourself at school with a bigger cushion (or a large scholarship at these schools) than it is to do well against a forced curve.

Why in such a hurry to go? You've got the rest of your life to graduate and work.

Have you asked both law schools for more scholarship money ?

Between the two options you have, Hofstra is better on the condition that you drop out if you don't maintain your scholarship. But I agree that retaking may serve you the best. Even if you don't get into better schools, a retake could net you money at Cardozo.

futurelawyer12 wrote:Once again...I am not retaking so it's either Cardozo, hofstra or neither can be a third option of that's everyone's opinion. But writing neither is wasting both of our times as I am not doing that. I am aware of how bad the market is and how hard it is to get a job and that any law school not in t14 is risky these days. But I also am aware that getting a job is not completely impossible and if I don't have the gpa necessary (3.5 at least id probably need higher) I'm dropping out. Also I would rather take the year at one of these places and transfer to somewhere better than start from scratch with the lsats. So while I appreciate it, saying retake is not helpful.

What's your GPA? You got a 162 which is around Cardozo's median. Try negotiating with them for more money, they seem unusually willing to give out money this year. I went from $8k to $42k over two weeks of negotiating for Dozo.

The Rover wrote:Between the two options you have, Hofstra is better on the condition that you drop out if you don't maintain your scholarship. But I agree that retaking may serve you the best. Even if you don't get into better schools, a retake could net you money at Cardozo.

Pretty much this. Without COL expenses Cardozo still leaves you in the hole for 150K which would be a sublimely retarded decision.

Also both the schools are being sued by alumni. So there's that.

Thanks everyone for your help. I tried negotiating for more money and Cardozo wpuldnt give me any because they dont give money for the may program. My gpa is below a 3.0. Also as much as you say it's a 60 40 chance it's not a matter of luck. Its a very different situation than for example a poker game if my chances were 60 40. I'm gonna put in the time I need to succeed. And if I can't do it I won't continue. So please stop giving me job statistics I know the numbers and I am aware of all this information. Finding a temporary job that pays by the hour and wasting another year of my life is not the answer so please stop trying to convince me that it is.

futurelawyer12 wrote: Finding a temporary job that pays by the hour and wasting another year of my life is not the answer so please stop trying to convince me that it is.

As opposed to going to a law school and wasting 150K on a degree with abysmal job placement stats?

Think big picture bro.

Sub 3.0 GPA doesn't lock you out of better schools - talk to that dude Wily who got a higher LSAT score with a sub 3 and basically got Cardozo full ride and a decent scholarship at GW which are well worth waiting a year for.

futurelawyer12 wrote:Thanks everyone for your help. I tried negotiating for more money and Cardozo wpuldnt give me any because they dont give money for the may program. My gpa is below a 3.0. Also as much as you say it's a 60 40 chance it's not a matter of luck. Its a very different situation than for example a poker game if my chances were 60 40. I'm gonna put in the time I need to succeed. And if I can't do it I won't continue. So please stop giving me job statistics I know the numbers and I am aware of all this information. Finding a temporary job that pays by the hour and wasting another year of my life is not the answer so please stop trying to convince me that it is.

Ah, that's right, Dozo doesn't give merit scholarships for May students. But they do give financial aid, and a friend of mine is getting ~$25k from them per year in aid money. You have to be willing to withdraw, though, or at least say you're considering withdrawing, to have a shot at getting this. Between your two choices, Cardozo is better, especially if you don't want to work in suburban Long Island after graduation, which is the median outcome for Hofstra grads.

futurelawyer12 wrote:Thanks everyone for your help. I tried negotiating for more money and Cardozo wpuldnt give me any because they dont give money for the may program. My gpa is below a 3.0. Also as much as you say it's a 60 40 chance it's not a matter of luck. Its a very different situation than for example a poker game if my chances were 60 40. I'm gonna put in the time I need to succeed. And if I can't do it I won't continue. So please stop giving me job statistics I know the numbers and I am aware of all this information. Finding a temporary job that pays by the hour and wasting another year of my life is not the answer so please stop trying to convince me that it is.

I don't understand why you're willing to drop out but you're not willing to retake. What job do you think you're going to get after dropping out of Hofstra? You will be even less employable than you are right now. How is that better than getting a job now and retaking?

The people telling you to retake are giving you sound advice. They are coming from a good place. If that sort of advice is not what you're looking for I would contact lawyers who do the type of lawyering that you are interested in the location you are most considering practicing and ask them what they think the best course of action is.

A piece of anecdotal advice, I have a few friends at both schools and those who attend Cardozo are doing better finding jobs than those at Hofstra.

futurelawyer12 wrote:Also as much as you say it's a 60 40 chance it's not a matter of luck. Its a very different situation than for example a poker game if my chances were 60 40. I'm gonna put in the time I need to succeed.

I literally just poasted this in another thread

It's a common misconception that you can just grind your way into the top third or whatever. Law school testing is a skill you don't know whether you have until you take a test. And it's gonna take luck: how well your classmates do, and how your prof. likes to grade. Reading GtM over and over won't change that. I know people who work hard and have bad grades, people who work hard who have sick grades, and a lot in between.

Law school grading isn't totally arbitrary, but it is completely unpredictable. So considering the above, making a decision based on the fact that "top 30% doesn't seem too hard" is pretty stupid.

Ok thank you everyone for your advice

Cardozo May sounds terrible , isn't it a full time class load?? Meaning May-May you are in school full time ?