Penn v UCLA Forum
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Penn v UCLA
I am pretty sure I know what the answer to this is, but I want someone to shake my shoulders and yell at me.
Today I was accepted off of the Penn WL and am really stoked considering it was very unexpected... But my other recent development is an interview scheduled for this week with UCLA (which I've heard is likely to result in acceptance... UCLA was my first choice before I considered that a better East Coast school could actually be an option for me as a reverse splitter with an unimpressive cycle). I know that Penn has way more pull nationally and all around better job prospects, but I hope to end up in California eventually (sooner after law school is better than later). It's still the right choice to go to Penn, right? Should I cancel my UCLA interview to avoid the temptation of staying on the warm West Coast? Will I be able to find a job out west after Penn if/when I want one? Are east coasters usually able to compete in the Southern California market? if I can get used to the east coast cold/culture, I might be interested in NYC... but I do feel like a west coaster at heart.
Other info: not sure yet which area of law I would like to practice but at this point I'm interested in soft IP, antitrust, and potentially other nerdy things that don't require intense science credentials. also, I am def interested in biglaw.
Anyone have a good reason to still interview with/ consider UCLA?
Today I was accepted off of the Penn WL and am really stoked considering it was very unexpected... But my other recent development is an interview scheduled for this week with UCLA (which I've heard is likely to result in acceptance... UCLA was my first choice before I considered that a better East Coast school could actually be an option for me as a reverse splitter with an unimpressive cycle). I know that Penn has way more pull nationally and all around better job prospects, but I hope to end up in California eventually (sooner after law school is better than later). It's still the right choice to go to Penn, right? Should I cancel my UCLA interview to avoid the temptation of staying on the warm West Coast? Will I be able to find a job out west after Penn if/when I want one? Are east coasters usually able to compete in the Southern California market? if I can get used to the east coast cold/culture, I might be interested in NYC... but I do feel like a west coaster at heart.
Other info: not sure yet which area of law I would like to practice but at this point I'm interested in soft IP, antitrust, and potentially other nerdy things that don't require intense science credentials. also, I am def interested in biglaw.
Anyone have a good reason to still interview with/ consider UCLA?
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Re: Penn v UCLA
If biglaw is more important to you than CA then easily Penn.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Everybody will probably say yes Penn is the best choice here. And I'm not going to contradict that. But I don't see why you should cancel the UCLA interview. It's not like you will HAVE to attend UCLA if you are accepted, but it'd be good to have that option on the table.
Also, UCLA can be pretty generous with scholarship $$$. They increased my scholarship twice (originally 90k, then 105k, now 120k-- that last increase was made just a few days ago so I believe they still have money available). And if financial considerations are an issue for you, it would be something to think about, especially because you want to end up in CA.
For the record, I chose 120k at UCLA over 15k at Chicago. I know some TLSers will think this is crazy, but I'm content. CA is where I want to be and 120k is a good chunk of change.
I do think that assuming equal/no money at the two schools, Penn is the better option.
I am one of the more debt averse people on TLS, so I think UCLA with money over Penn at sticker is something to think about. At the very least, I think you should still do the interview.
Also, UCLA can be pretty generous with scholarship $$$. They increased my scholarship twice (originally 90k, then 105k, now 120k-- that last increase was made just a few days ago so I believe they still have money available). And if financial considerations are an issue for you, it would be something to think about, especially because you want to end up in CA.
For the record, I chose 120k at UCLA over 15k at Chicago. I know some TLSers will think this is crazy, but I'm content. CA is where I want to be and 120k is a good chunk of change.
I do think that assuming equal/no money at the two schools, Penn is the better option.
I am one of the more debt averse people on TLS, so I think UCLA with money over Penn at sticker is something to think about. At the very least, I think you should still do the interview.
Last edited by hellothisisme on Mon May 07, 2012 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Okay, well, if you're absolutely sure you won't be getting merit aid, then yeah, Penn is the answer. A Penn degree with ties can get you back west.gravityrides0 wrote:I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
But I still don't see the need to cancel the UCLA interview completely.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Yeah, I'll probably still do it. It's just going to be heartbreaking because I fell in love with UCLA when I visited, met the person who will be interviewing me in person, etc... If Penn didn't happen, I would have gone in a heartbeat!hellothisisme wrote:Okay, well, if you're absolutely sure you won't be getting merit aid, then yeah, Penn is the answer. A Penn degree with ties can get you back west.gravityrides0 wrote:I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
But I still don't see the need to cancel the UCLA interview completely.
The reason I don't think I will get merit aid is because of a low LSAT score... Do you think the Penn acceptance would be leverage for UCLA aid? I wouldn't think so since I'm already just a WLer... Would it be in bad taste to mention Penn to them if I'm accepted?
- Mr. Somebody
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Has Penn told you there is no more scholarship money available, or are you just saying you won't get money based on your numbers or lack of other offers?
I think Penn is the better choice here
I think Penn is the better choice here
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Re: Penn v UCLA
I chose NU over UCLA because of what a UCLA alum said to me at an admit event (a bit ironic, since his statement was intended to convince me to attend UCLA). When I asked about placement in northern California (since I absolutely hate SoCal), he said that there was something to be said for having a "rare" degree (from a comparable/better reputation) and how finding something in SF might be easier (I also have ties) than in LA, since the market's flooded with SC/LA grads. Don't cancel the interview, but I'd go for Penn in your situation.gravityrides0 wrote:I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
Oh, and congrats!
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Penn. There are no CA jobs (only a slight exaggeration)
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Re: Penn v UCLA
There's pros and cons to each for CA biglaw. UCLA/USC have alumni networks and firms that expect to hire X number from each school every year. On the other hand Penn has more prestige and you are competing with fewer people for CA jobs. Honestly my belief is that it's probably a wash between the two for CA biglaw. But for other things it isn't even. Penn has a huge edge for biglaw (specifically NYC). On the other hand, it would be easier to get non-biglaw jobs in LA from USC/UCLA because you can network, intern during the school year, and make use of their alumni networks in non-biglaw jobs.gravityrides0 wrote:I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
As noted above, it probably comes down to whether biglaw or CA is more important to you. Personally I think that since you're taking about 250k in debt from either school that you should care more about getting biglaw than where it is.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
I would definitely mention Penn to them as leverage. I used my Chicago acceptance as leverage and they increased my scholarship by 15k after already having increased it once. It's worth a shot, anyway.gravityrides0 wrote:Yeah, I'll probably still do it. It's just going to be heartbreaking because I fell in love with UCLA when I visited, met the person who will be interviewing me in person, etc... If Penn didn't happen, I would have gone in a heartbeat!hellothisisme wrote:Okay, well, if you're absolutely sure you won't be getting merit aid, then yeah, Penn is the answer. A Penn degree with ties can get you back west.gravityrides0 wrote:I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
But I still don't see the need to cancel the UCLA interview completely.
The reason I don't think I will get merit aid is because of a low LSAT score... Do you think the Penn acceptance would be leverage for UCLA aid? I wouldn't think so since I'm already just a WLer... Would it be in bad taste to mention Penn to them if I'm accepted?
Like I said, with equal/no aid or if UCLA only gives you a small scholarship, Penn is best. But if you get a decent amount of aid (which I wouldn't rule out completely), it's something to think about, especially because you really loved the school when you visited.
I can see everybody else is saying Penn though, so what do I know, I guess.
Last edited by hellothisisme on Mon May 07, 2012 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Well, the reason I am assuming no aid is because my LSAT is bottom 25% at both schools, but I guess it can't hurt to mention Penn and see if I get anything. The thing about rare degrees is interesting, but I assume that requires a lot of networking (I don't really have professional ties out here). I guess the bottom line is that Penn for the same cost as UCLA is smarter because it opens up more options overall?
- Doorkeeper
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Penn.gravityrides0 wrote:I won't be getting $$ at either school, so that isn't factoring into my decision. Employment prospects are more important to me. I guess my concern is whether a Penn degree will be able to bring me back west, or whether UCLA/USC are usually favored and swoop all of the CA jobs...
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- willwilliams1334
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Penn absolutely. Extremely prestigious, great biglaw chances, great location... You're lucky to have gotten in there, especially with those numbers. Don't throw away a great opportunity.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
OP: A few posts back, you wrote that your numbers were 170/3.7. If so, you are not in the bottom 25% LSAT for either law school & should expect significant scholarship money from UCLA. Although an earlier post claimed a 4.07/165.
If both are at sticker, then Penn is the better investment.
P.S. If I understand your situation, you have been accepted to Penn but you're on the UCLA waitlist. If so, then the decision is even easier; additionally, the real issue becomes how to handle your Penn acceptance during the UCLA interview : Whether to keep it confidential to avoid being rejected by UCLA or disclosing in hope of generating a significant scholarship offer from UCLA.
If both are at sticker, then Penn is the better investment.
P.S. If I understand your situation, you have been accepted to Penn but you're on the UCLA waitlist. If so, then the decision is even easier; additionally, the real issue becomes how to handle your Penn acceptance during the UCLA interview : Whether to keep it confidential to avoid being rejected by UCLA or disclosing in hope of generating a significant scholarship offer from UCLA.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
haha uhhhhh I never claimed 170/3.7. I don't know where you saw that. maybe I was quoting someone? the other stats or correct.CanadianWolf wrote:OP: A few posts back, you wrote that your numbers were 170/3.7. If so, you are not in the bottom 25% LSAT for either law school & should expect significant scholarship money from UCLA. Although an earlier post claimed a 4.07/165.
If both are at sticker, then Penn is the better investment.
P.S. If I understand your situation, you have been accepted to Penn but you're on the UCLA waitlist. If so, then the decision is even easier; additionally, the real issue becomes how to handle your Penn acceptance during the UCLA interview : Whether to keep it confidential to avoid being rejected by UCLA or disclosing in hope of generating a significant scholarship offer from UCLA.
And yes, your correct... the interview is tomorrow. I guess I will go through it with the mindset that my other acceptance didn't happen?
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Re: Penn v UCLA
My mistake. Your post included quotes from multiple posters & I misidentified the overlap.
If you approach your UCLA interview as if you have no other acceptances, then you are almost certain to not receive any scholarship consideration.
An approach to consider: (Assuming that your goal is to get accepted to UCLA with substantial scholarship money, and not just to get accepted to UCLA.) You've been accepted to Penn, but love LA, UCLA & are targeting SoCal biglaw. Penn is the obvious choice if both are at sticker price, but UCLA would be attractive with $X per year scholarship.
The question of other acceptances is almost certain to arise during your interview.
To state the obvious: Interviews & negotiations usually are more productive when both parties have specific goals in mind.
If you approach your UCLA interview as if you have no other acceptances, then you are almost certain to not receive any scholarship consideration.
An approach to consider: (Assuming that your goal is to get accepted to UCLA with substantial scholarship money, and not just to get accepted to UCLA.) You've been accepted to Penn, but love LA, UCLA & are targeting SoCal biglaw. Penn is the obvious choice if both are at sticker price, but UCLA would be attractive with $X per year scholarship.
The question of other acceptances is almost certain to arise during your interview.
To state the obvious: Interviews & negotiations usually are more productive when both parties have specific goals in mind.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
CanadianWolf wrote:My mistake. Your post included quotes from multiple posters & I misidentified the overlap.
If you approach your UCLA interview as if you have no other acceptances, then you are almost certain to not receive any scholarship consideration.
An approach to consider: (Assuming that your goal is to get accepted to UCLA with substantial scholarship money, and not just to get accepted to UCLA.) You've been accepted to Penn, but love LA, UCLA & are targeting SoCal biglaw. Penn is the obvious choice if both are at sticker price, but UCLA would be attractive with $X per year scholarship.
The question of other acceptances is almost certain to arise during your interview.
To state the obvious: Interviews & negotiations usually are more productive when both parties have specific goals in mind.
Very good advice... If they don't bring up other acceptances, do you think it would be wise to bring it up at the end as sort of an honest dilemma and see what they say? I guess the worst that happens is they can tell I'm leaning Penn and decide not to risk admitting me?
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Determine your goal. If accepted to both Penn & UCLA at sticker, is there any room for debate in your decision ? Probably not. With a Penn acceptance at sticker price & an offer from UCLA with $90,000 or $105,000 or $X, is there room for debate as to which law school you'll attend ? Almost certainly.
You have to discuss your primary concerns in order to have a productive interview. The truth is that you are now more attractive with your Penn acceptance in hand.
P.S. As things now stand, you assume that no scholarship offer/consideration is forthcoming from UCLA & , therefore, in light of your Penn acceptance, want to cancel the interview.
You have to discuss your primary concerns in order to have a productive interview. The truth is that you are now more attractive with your Penn acceptance in hand.
P.S. As things now stand, you assume that no scholarship offer/consideration is forthcoming from UCLA & , therefore, in light of your Penn acceptance, want to cancel the interview.
- Mr. Somebody
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Re: Penn v UCLA
And what are you basing this statement on? He is attractive to UCLA because of his numbers - particularly they need his GPA. The Penn acceptance only makes him more expensive to them. Now, they're going to have to pony up cash to try to lure him away from a T14. Maybe some other applicants would be willing to pay sticker.CanadianWolf wrote:Determine your goal. If accepted to both Penn & UCLA at sticker, is there any room for debate in your decision ? Probably not. With a Penn acceptance at sticker price & an offer from UCLA with $90,000 or $105,000 or $X, is there room for debate as to which law school you'll attend ? Almost certainly.
You have to discuss your primary concerns in order to have a productive interview. The truth is that you are now more attractive with your Penn acceptance in hand.
P.S. As things now stand, you assume that no scholarship offer/consideration is forthcoming from UCLA & , therefore, in light of your Penn acceptance, want to cancel the interview.
Get the acceptance first then start leveraging. Telling UCLA you will only go if they give you money is going to make them not want to deal with you.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
That certainly seems more tactful... I think they call you to give you your acceptance and give you a couple days to decide, so I could always bring it up when I have to call them back.Mr. Somebody wrote:And what are you basing this statement on? He is attractive to UCLA because of his numbers - particularly they need his GPA. The Penn acceptance only makes him more expensive to them. Now, they're going to have to pony up cash to try to lure him away from a T14. Maybe some other applicants would be willing to pay sticker.CanadianWolf wrote:Determine your goal. If accepted to both Penn & UCLA at sticker, is there any room for debate in your decision ? Probably not. With a Penn acceptance at sticker price & an offer from UCLA with $90,000 or $105,000 or $X, is there room for debate as to which law school you'll attend ? Almost certainly.
You have to discuss your primary concerns in order to have a productive interview. The truth is that you are now more attractive with your Penn acceptance in hand.
P.S. As things now stand, you assume that no scholarship offer/consideration is forthcoming from UCLA & , therefore, in light of your Penn acceptance, want to cancel the interview.
Get the acceptance first then start leveraging. Telling UCLA you will only go if they give you money is going to make them not want to deal with you.
Also, I'm a girl! haha.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
In at UCLA. Probably gonna hop on a plane to visit philly this week. I'm kinda freaking out... I really want to end up in CA... No $$ that I know of, but getting residency in CA would make UCLA cheaper as a 2L/3L... extremely torn.
- willwilliams1334
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Re: Penn v UCLA
Go to Penn if you want a job. You can lateral to CA later with ties.gravityrides0 wrote:In at UCLA. Probably gonna hop on a plane to visit philly this week. I'm kinda freaking out... I really want to end up in CA... No $$ that I know of, but getting residency in CA would make UCLA cheaper as a 2L/3L... extremely torn.
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Re: Penn v UCLA
http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... yment+data
For the love of God, Penn.
(UCLA's not on there, but it can't be that much better than USC.)
For the love of God, Penn.
(UCLA's not on there, but it can't be that much better than USC.)
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
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