Top Law Schools

Hi there,

I posted last month asking for insight into my decision between Cardozo and BU. Since that time, I've received permission to use a relative's empty house in NYC for law school. This changes the the financial calculation. Now my total debt load (this takes everything into account: COL, undergrad debt, savings, etc.) is:

BU: 95K

Dozo: 20K

Points to consider:

--While I'm interested in biglaw, I'm also interested in other fields of law (entertainment law, criminal law, mass torts, etc.). I'm also enticed by the freedom 20K of debt will allow me to enjoy. Should I receive interesting opportunities in life, I will be able to pursue them.

--Money is important to me. I would like to enjoy the standard of life biglaw would provide.

--I prefer to work in NYC after law school (I'm open to LA as well, but this doesn't look likely from either option here).

What do you think?

If you look at the numbers, BC offers somewhere between double and triple the chance of getting Biglaw over Cardozo. Not saying it's impossible at Cardozo, but it's like 30-35% of the class v 15% of the class. Is that worth $70,000 for you?

FWIW, I have a similar decision between GW and Cardozo, with a difference of $51,000 between the schools. I'm leaning towards GW, but still unsure.

Cardozo does seem like a friendly school, and it's located in a great part of NYC. Did you go to the admitted students event yesterday?

Dozo is definitely in a great part of NYC.

As for the employment numbers, BU actually doesn't far outplace Cardozo, at least according to the NLJ (National Law Journal). The NLJ reports that BU placed around 17% of its 2011 grads into NLJ 250 firms, versus 12% for Cardozo. Though, this ranking doesn't differentiate between the caliber of firms into which grads are placed. The top 250 firms cover a broad spectrum. It's possible that the 17% getting firm jobs from BU are working at firms more highly ranked than the 12% getting firm jobs from Cardozo. This matters mostly in terms of exit opportunities (i.e., do you want to go in-house, do you want to become a partner in midlaw, do you want to work in finance, the government, etc.).

You are right that BU placed around 30% into the NLJ 250 for class of 2010. I'm betting the placement rate for 2012 will be higher than 2011's 17%, but having it return to 30% seems optimistic.

Basically, my decision boils down to whether I am sure I want biglaw and whether am willing to risk taking on a large amount of debt.

Thanks again for the insight.

Wily wrote:If you look at the numbers, BC offers somewhere between double and triple the chance of getting Biglaw over Cardozo. Not saying it's impossible at Cardozo, but it's like 30-35% of the class v 15% of the class. Is that worth $70,000 for you?

Can I ask where you're getting those numbers from? Just curious. 30-35% sounds like a lot for Brooklyn, but I could certainly be wrong.

emarxnj wrote:

Wily wrote:If you look at the numbers, BC offers somewhere between double and triple the chance of getting Biglaw over Cardozo. Not saying it's impossible at Cardozo, but it's like 30-35% of the class v 15% of the class. Is that worth $70,000 for you?

Can I ask where you're getting those numbers from? Just curious. 30-35% sounds like a lot for Brooklyn, but I could certainly be wrong.

Boston, not Brooklyn

stillwater wrote:

emarxnj wrote:

Wily wrote:If you look at the numbers, BC offers somewhere between double and triple the chance of getting Biglaw over Cardozo. Not saying it's impossible at Cardozo, but it's like 30-35% of the class v 15% of the class. Is that worth $70,000 for you?

Can I ask where you're getting those numbers from? Just curious. 30-35% sounds like a lot for Brooklyn, but I could certainly be wrong.

Boston, not Brooklyn

Whoops, saw NY and just assumed. My mistake.

For Class of 2010, BU crushed Dozo in 100+ firm/fed clerk placement, 39% to 20%, according to the ABA figures. But you're right, OP, the placement gap narrowed in 2011, at least according to the NLJ250 survey numbers (BU took it on the chin, Dozo stayed steady). It's very annoying that neither school has posted anything online about Class of 2011 numbers, even though they've been out of school a year. So the data doesn't give us a conclusive answer.

Some of your personal priorities favor BU (e.g., wanting Biglaw), but others favor Dozo (e.g., being interested in entertainment law, for which you'd want to be around NYC rather than Boston to do networking). So that doesn't decide it either.

Tough one. I voted for BU because I think it's a quasi-national school and Dozo is purely regional, and that difference is worth a lot of money. But I know that's a general and pretty glib thing to say.

Big gamechanger has occurred:

I've received a 60K scholarship to go to USC. As I am interested in entertainment law and have always wanted to try out LA, this offer appeals to me greatly.

Yet, even with the scholarship, I will emerge $164K in debt from USC. This compares to 95K from BU and 20K from Cardozo.

What do you think?

Please note, I would like the possibility of returning to NYC in the future. Not sure if USC will give me this.

Thanks for your insight.

None of these will get you "entertainment law". Voted Dozo because the lack of debt will allow you to pursue more practical career opportunities.

IronSkadden wrote:Big gamechanger has occurred:

I've received a 60K scholarship to go to USC. As I am interested in entertainment law and have always wanted to try out LA, this offer appeals to me greatly.

Yet, even with the scholarship, I will emerge $164K in debt from USC. This compares to 95K from BU and 20K from Cardozo.

What do you think?

Please note, I would like the possibility of returning to NYC in the future. Not sure if USC will give me this.

Thanks for your insight.

I would still vote Cardozo. I think that is still too much money for USC. I think i would attempt to negotiate with your BU and Cardozo offers. If you get 90k I think it's a better gamble.
I also wonder, why entertainment law? I'm a 0L but work at a vault ranked firm and I just looked up what our entertainment group actually does. It seems like they principally do financing for various movie projects, as well as IP and licensing. It doesn't seem much more exciting than the rest of what we do.

That is way too much for USC.

Thanks for the insight, everyone.

top30man and InGoodFaith, I'm wondering if this changes your opinion:

I can afford to pay for my first year at BU with my savings. This means: if I am not in the top 20% by the end of 1L year (i.e., in good shape for biglaw), I can withdraw from law school without incurring any debt (of course, there is the lost opportunity cost, sunk cost, etc. of abandoning the field).

As for why entertainment law, I'm more interested in counseling talent (actors, writers, directors) than in counseling production companies. Both the idea of counseling individual clients (as opposed to bankers/execs representing corporations) appeals to me, as well as the closeness to the creative process (for various reasons).

Again, I appreciate your advice.

IronSkadden wrote:Thanks for the insight, everyone.

top30man and InGoodFaith, I'm wondering if this changes your opinion:

I can afford to pay for my first year at BU with my savings. This means: if I am not in the top 20% by the end of 1L year (i.e., in good shape for biglaw), I can withdraw from law school without incurring any debt (of course, there is the lost opportunity cost, sunk cost, etc. of abandoning the field).

As for why entertainment law, I'm more interested in counseling talent (actors, writers, directors) than in counseling production companies. Both the idea of counseling individual clients (as opposed to bankers/execs representing corporations) appeals to me, as well as the closeness to the creative process (for various reasons).

Again, I appreciate your advice.

I have 4 friends trying to get into entertainment law - 3 from USC, one from davis. entertainment law is near-impossible outside of T10. Too competitive. You can find something peripheral and maybe get into working with talent down the line, but don't spend that much more on USC because you think it'll give you a better chance at entertainment law than a much-cheaper BU or cardozo.

Entertainment law is not a realistic career goal, especially out of schools in this range. I'd go with BU for better firm placement and a lower chance of ending up jerbless.