Cornell v. UTA Forum

[FlanAl]

58% to 38% is a 20% difference a pretty solid chunk of the class size. But most of the other schools had a pretty big drop that year as well. To over simplify its because the class of 2010 went through OCI in the fall of 2008 when things sucked less. The class of 2011 went through OCI in 2009 arguably when things sucked the most. Because of cornell's small class size even if 10 kids decide to not even do OCI (for PI or whatever) you'll see a big shift in NLJ numbers.

[KMaine]

Class of 2011 was a bunch of dumb asses. Wait until you see the numbers for 2012 and 2013. JK, what everybody else said. Next year it will be over 50%.

[bigeast03]

Does anyone know why Cornell dropped on this list so dramatically?:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

55% to NLJ 250 to 38% seems like a little more than inter-year noise. (Just saw new LST numbers. Not looking good for UT).

I think you can get a better idea of their placement power by looking at their statistics over a four-year period: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... tats-2.pdf

Cornell places very well (notably better than UT, it would seem). Echoing others, it seems that for your career goals Cornell would be a good choice, barring any QoL/geographic issues.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Very slight geographic preference for Texas

If you're from Texas and/or have ties there, Cornell. If not, Texas.

What makes you think that Cornell places better into Texas than UT? I have talked to different Texas hiring partners that said they go slightly deeper into MVP's classes and significantly more into top 5 schools (NYU is usually left off that top-5 list). I haven't heard one Texas lawyer say they go deeper into Cornell's class though. Maybe you've heard something different?

IMO, if OP wants to work in Texas, then Cornell (assuming TX ties) and UT are pretty much on equal footing, except that UT will be cheaper and OCI will be less of a hassle. (Cornell student might have a better shot at 1L SA if he hustles since he can interview over christmas break before grades come out and UT 1L's will do spring OCI after grades are out.)

No argument that Cornell places better most everywhere else.

[woeisme]

Class of 2011 was a bunch of dumb asses. Wait until you see the numbers for 2012 and 2013. JK, what everybody else said. Next year it will be over 50%.

Fucker.

[woeisme]

What makes you think that Cornell places better into Texas than UT? I have talked to different Texas hiring partners that said they go slightly deeper into MVP's classes and significantly more into top 5 schools (NYU is usually left off that top-5 list). I haven't heard one Texas lawyer say they go deeper into Cornell's class though. Maybe you've heard something different?

I was just relying on the fact that everyone I know at Cornell that wanted Texas and had ties to Texas, ended up in Texas. It's not that I think Cornell is better than UT, it's that I think the advantage of going to UT for Texas placement is very much diminished if you already have Texas ties. And because OP was not dead-set on Texas anyway (he said he merely had a slight preference for Texas), going to Cornell would better cover his bases.

IMO, if OP wants to work in Texas, then Cornell (assuming TX ties) and UT are pretty much on equal footing, except that UT will be cheaper and OCI will be less of a hassle. (Cornell student might have a better shot at 1L SA if he hustles since he can interview over christmas break before grades come out and UT 1L's will do spring OCI after grades are out.)

No argument that Cornell places better most everywhere else.

I basically agree with this. And this is consistent with what I was saying. Basically, because Cornell and UT are pretty much equal for Texas placement (assuming ties), Cornell is often a safer choice for the added ability to fall back on NYC or elsewhere.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I basically agree with this. And this is consistent with what I was saying. Basically, because Cornell and UT are pretty much equal for Texas placement (assuming ties), Cornell is often a safer choice for the added ability to fall back on NYC or elsewhere.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page.

If OP isn't really set on Texas, I think Cornell is worth the extra 60K.

[CanadianWolf]

To complicate matters: Forbes released a report on the fastest growing (not rebounding) US cities on April 25, 2012. Three of the top 4 are Texas cities.

1) Austin
2) Dallas
3) San Jose, California
4) Houston
5) Salt Lake City, Utah

The report quotes an Austin, Texas realtor sharing that houses listed for sale are generating multiple offers within days & selling at or above the listing (asking) price.

Maybe UTexas law students should consider purchasing a house & reselling in a few years to recover law school tuition costs.

"America's fastest growing cities, 2012" April 25, 2012 Forbes.com

[jwahba]

To complicate matters: Forbes released a report on the fastest growing (not rebounding) US cities on April 25, 2012. Three of the top 4 are Texas cities.

1) Austin
2) Dallas
3) San Jose, California
4) Houston
5) Salt Lake City, Utah

That's the majority of my reason for a slight Tex geographic preference. The other part is weather.

[jwahba]

Are there any academic performance or mental health concerns for someone whose lived their entire life in sunny California moving to frigid Ithaca?

[SaintFond]

Are there any academic performance or mental health concerns for someone whose lived their entire life in sunny California moving to frigid Ithaca?

I've lived my entire life in CA, and I am considering Cornell too.

I actually think the cold and the fact that there will be few distractions will have a positive effect on one's academic performance. In a certain sense, Cornell/Ithaca sounds like the perfect setting for a law student--almost a monastic sort of life. Also a very small student body, so (hopefully) a nice, tight-knit group. Very competitive though, from what I understand. But perhaps that will also have a positive effect?

Supposedly Ithaca is gorges!

[bigeast03]

Are there any academic performance or mental health concerns for someone whose lived their entire life in sunny California moving to frigid Ithaca?

Meet Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD):
http://www.webmd.com/depression/tc/seas ... c-overview

[jwahba]

I've lived my entire life in CA, and I am considering Cornell too.

Any 1L, 2L or 3Ls out there in a similar position?

[woeisme]

Are there any academic performance or mental health concerns for someone whose lived their entire life in sunny California moving to frigid Ithaca?

Not for the vast majority of people, but yeah, this theoretically could be a real concern for a small minority. Any real reason to think you'd be susceptible to depression or something given a climate change?

[woeisme]

Any 1L, 2L or 3Ls out there in a similar position?

Not sure why this helps your decision, but I can guarantee you that every single year, there is at least a handful of people who had never before lived in seasonal climates (e.g., they had always lived in CA or FL, etc.)

[jwahba]

Any real reason to think you'd be susceptible to depression or something given a climate change?

Nope just curious.

[jwahba]

How ominous are the implications of Dean Sager's "voluntary" departure for UT's ranking? I don't want to latch myself to UT, only to find the ship sinking.

[de5igual]

How ominous are the implications of Dean Sager's "voluntary" departure for UT's ranking? I don't want to latch myself to UT, only to find the ship sinking.

The effects of his departure are probably negligible. Rankings generally aren't that volatile...UCLA/UT/Vandy have pretty consistently (save for one or two outlier years) been trading places back and forth for the past two decades.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

How ominous are the implications of Dean Sager's "voluntary" departure for UT's ranking? I don't want to latch myself to UT, only to find the ship sinking.

UT has consistently had high peer scores (relative to their ranking). IMO, the dean situation will have little effect on that. UT has an amazing faculty and that still remains. Barring a mass exodus of talent (which I think is very unlikely), I don't see their peer ranking changing much. If the new dean is ineffective in attracting top talent, that might have an effect on the school long term, but that would be years down the line.