IP Student - UToledo vs UNH Forum

[IP_Student15]

I'm sure just looking at the title this is an easy choice, but consider these circumstances.

My undergraduate studies are in Biochemistry. At UT, I was offered a full ride and the ability to complete a masters in bioengineering. UNH will cost 90k including living over the course of 3 years for only the JD.

I'm having trouble weighing the reputation against the better technical background especially with the price difference. Any thoughts?

[Julio_El_Chavo]

I would encourage you to not go to law school, but it seems like you've already made up your mind. 90+% you will regret it.

[Artistry]

uGPA/LSAT scores?
Ties?
Where do you want to work?

[IP_Student15]

uGPA/LSAT scores?
Ties?
Where do you want to work?

Ties to Toledo and Columbus, OH.
uGPA was awful ~3.0
LSAT was 160 but with no preparation (looked at one practice test)
Significant medical research with multiple publications (including as first author)

I'd like to work somewhere in Ohio or Michigan or around Chicago.

My biggest confusion is multiple IP attorneys have told me that for the most part, law school doesn't matter as much as the technical qualifications for patent prosecution. By the same token, I've heard that law school hardly prepares you to be a patent attorney. I'm thinking, perhaps a school ranked top ten for patent law for the last 20 years or so, like UNH, is an exception in which the preparation gives you an advantage over someone with an advanced technical degree, but I don't know.

I see UNH exhibits significantly higher salaries, but I can't discern whether this difference is due to a much higher proportion of their students being IP or the quality of candidate they produce.

[Artistry]

Have you applied to Ohio State, Cincinnati or Case Western? Those might be better bets for entry into the legal field than Toledo is....

[IP_Student15]

Have you applied to Ohio State, Cincinnati or Case Western? Those might be better bets for entry into the legal field than Toledo is....

Yes, I applied to Case Western and have a phone interview tomorrow (that I thought didn't affect admissions, but it seems I was mistaken). I'm also waiting to hear from Chicago-Kent, IU-B, and WUSTL. I anticipate a rejection from the latter two, and Case and Kent are a bit of a coin flip I think. My numbers make OSU an absolute no, and I couldn't stomach living in Cinci so I didn't apply there.

[stillwater]

Allow me to interrupt this madness. You need, must, have to retake. You looked at one practice test? Even with your GPA, if you can improve your LSAT it will mean money and a lot better options than those you have presented...assuming your goal is to become gainfully employed.

[Artistry]

Allow me to interrupt this madness. You need, must, have to retake. You looked at one practice test? Even with your GPA, if you can improve your LSAT it will mean money and a lot better options than those you have presented...assuming your goal is to become gainfully employed.

+1

I was going to get to this point, but stillwater beat me to it. If you got a 160 on your first try, then you are capable of getting better with a few months of study and practice.

[IP_Student15]

Allow me to interrupt this madness. You need, must, have to retake. You looked at one practice test? Even with your GPA, if you can improve your LSAT it will mean money and a lot better options than those you have presented...assuming your goal is to become gainfully employed.

I've definitely considered re-taking, and had I taken an LSAT before the February test I most certainly would have. Regardless of the consequences, I'm not looking to spend a year working some menial job while waiting out another cycle. Your last point is well taken, but I'd like to point out that (from LST) roughly 8.5% of UT's 2009 class placed at over $90,000. UNH placed roughly 34.8% at 82,5 and above. You're right, it's much less likely to become gainfully employed - but not an insurmountable task.

I'll stop beating around the bush. How much does it mean that UNH (FPLC) is only one of two schools to be ranked top-ten in IP every year that US News has given the rankings? Do IP firms value this degree as if it were close to a top tier school, or is UNH just exploiting the ranking criteria? Granted, this might not be the best place to ask this, but I can't seem to find any forums that bring together a bunch of IP attorneys.

[The Rover]

Why didn't you study for the LSAT? Why did you wait until February to take it?

If you really didn't want to apply next cycle, you should have studied and taken the LSAT last June/October.

Your posts make it seem like you decided to go to law school at the last second, which is not something that you should do. Do yourself a favor, start studying for the LSAT now and take the test this upcoming October. Have all your apps ready and submit them the day after you get your October LSAT score back. You won't regret it.

[cinephile]

Would the masters in bioengineering be concurrent and, thus, also free? If so, I don't think this is a bad deal. You get two degrees for free, and one of them has a decent chance of getting you a job. And it's not like you're taking on debt and COL is certainly low in Toledo.

If you really want to practice law, OSU is your best bet, as you know.

Don't spend your money on UNH, especially as you're not from nor do you want to stay in New Hampshire.

[crossarmant]

Just get a masters in Bioengineering and forgo a legal career. It'll do everyone a favor and you'll be better off. Work on your GREs and go into a masters for Engineering, you'll make more and have less debt and actually be improving society as a whole.

[Ersatz Haderach]

Specialty rankings don't mean all that much, generally. I don't know if there's anything particularly special about the handful of low-ranked schools that have good IP ranks. I would guess the answer is, "Just enough to justify using it as a marketing tool." You want to stay in Ohio and do IP - Case seems decent for that, and it has a specialty ranking if you care. You aren't going to get a scholarship unless you retake, though, and you don't want to go to Case at sticker. If you do go to Case, there is also an option to do a master's in Biochemistry, and if there's one thing Case Western is undeniably good at, it's Life Sciences. I'd expect that option exists at OSU as well, and with a higher LSAT score, those are both options. Or you could just work for a year and go straight for graduate Biochem/Biomedical Engineering and forget about law school, but that's your choice.

But (sorry) you should retake. Don't go to Toledo. If you only have 'some menial job' as your option now, what are you going to have with a U. Toledo law degree? Three years older and mildly better job options? You can do better. You got a 160 without even thinking about it - that means your ceiling is as high as 170. And that gets you big money at Case, in with some money at OSU, and in at higher-ranked schools that need a splitter to round out their numbers.

Go here: http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/home.aspx and look at Toledo's placement. It blows, it absolutely blows. 9% unemployed. 25% in short-term jobs. That's one third of your class slaughtered at the outset. Case isn't that much better, but at least a decent possibility of doing what you want to do exists, and IP grads tend to do better in the job hunt. OSU is better and is the top dog in Ohio. A total of 15 Toledo grads are in firms with 10 or more lawyers, and they aren't all doing IP. A staggering 13 are in Business/Industry full-time jobs. So, what - that's 28/161 doing something you want to do, maybe?

Yes, you get the Master's in Biochem as well - but in three years? Is that a marketable degree in/outside of Toledo? Same questions apply, but you won't find the answers here. If you really want to be a lawyer, great, but you owe it to yourself to get into a really good school or at least get yourself out of the debt trap at a decent regional one. If you're just looking for a way to overcome a weak undergrad GPA, law school ain't it.