Loyola LA, U of Miami,Michigan State, Emory Forum

[lobolawyer]

For apps./negotiating scholly $$ I understand a wide net, but when it comes down to "I want LA, which school?" that's a diff. story. For the record, I saw what Romo - a highly credible source - was doing when Romo asked about OP's motivations for going to LS. I'd like to hear more from OP so that we can provide useful, if differing, advice.

[Jeffleo7]

Hi,

Guess budding attorneys have to suspect everyone.

I applied late (apps sent just before the deadline).
Didn't have time to review anything, esp. my personal statement (it sure looked sad the next morning)

Only offers I got were from these schools of which 2 were my safeties.
And yes, fee waivers for them.

So, I'm doing law because I have worked at women's rights & minority organizations and saw how tough things are. Attorneys willing to help us were in short supply (often non-existent) - no money in it, after all.

I've never been interested in making lots of money, I lead a simple life, and feel fulfilled when I can help others better their lives.
I used to be told off as a child for giving my lunch to others, and sharing everything i had with those who didn't.
I am not a "bleeding heart liberal" and have a rather "conservative" moral standard.

Sorry if it does not fit the norm, but that is me.

I put my deposits down because I could not decide what to do.

Awards: Full ride at Mich St, 2/3 ride at Miami and 1/2 at Loyola.
None at the other 2 so far (one said that come June 1st, when 2nd deposits are due, they may have some $).

Thanks to all those who genuinely tried to help me decide.

[Nova]

Awards: Full ride at Mich St, 2/3 ride at Miami and 1/2 at Loyola.
None at the other 2 so far (one said that come June 1st, when 2nd deposits are due, they may have some $).

Thanks to all those who genuinely tried to help me decide.

Haha, i bet you were not expecting over 20 replys while you were away doing things IRL.

With a half scholarship, and your desire to stay in Cali, I think you should go to Loyola.

[romothesavior]

Hey OP,
I definitely don't "suspect" you or think you're trolling or something. I also don't question your convictions and desire to do women's PI work. I just think you need to make sure you realize you know what you're getting into, and also consider that maybe a law degree isn't the best way to serve the community. It sounds like you realize that you will not make a lot of money with your law degree doing PI, and that's good that you realize it. But public interest jobs (like real jobs that pay) are hard to get anymore, even the ones that are very low pay. With huge hiring freezes and budget cuts, it's not a question of being willing to work for less; it's a question of finding a job at all. What would you do if you couldn't find one?

I don't think anyone is criticizing your convictions and public interest desires. It's not a liberal or conservative thing, so I'm not sure what the "bleeding heart liberal" bit was about. There are many, many people in need of legal services who lack access to them, and it is good to have people like you who want to provide them. The problem is that budgets and funding are very tight right now, so jobs just aren't there in numbers. You will have a lot of debt after law school. We're just trying to get you to think carefully about this.

It sounds like you applied late and rushed into this cycle. What about doing volunteer work for a year or two, retaking the LSAT, and then doing another application cycle? This would give you beneficial work experience (very important for public interest work), would allow you to apply with better numbers, and would give you a chance to do a full application cycle the right way. I think you owe that to yourself.

Best of luck.

[flem]

Jeff, In various TLS forums, some have said Loyola is good for PI and it has many grads in the largest 10 LA law firms. If accurate, that's good news.

This matters little. All schools can be "great for PI" but it makes no difference if you're going 200K in debt to do so. That's worthless.

How many grads they have in the 10 largest LA firms is not necessarily indicative of hiring in this economy, unless they would all hired post 09.

I would only consider Loyola, UW and Emory.
Emory would mean probably working in GA at least initially.
UW - likely washington, although enough grads do return to Souhern CA.

Another possibility, if you do well, is to transfer afer L1 to a better college.

I know its tough, But ultimately, its your decision.
Since you are in LA, simply call a few large firms and ask their opinion of Loyola.
Also call your targeted PI firms since thats your goal.

Good luck.

This is terrible advice.

Typical TLSers being typical. Funny stuff.

Water is wet.

This is the best waterman alt of all time.

[flem]

Awards: Full ride at Mich St, 2/3 ride at Miami and 1/2 at Loyola.

This isn't awful, but doesn't Loyola have that awful top third stip?

I'd use the rest of these to negotiate with Loyola if you want to stay in California. You're still looking at 100K+ worth of debt here. It's great that you're fine with living with less money and everything, but remember 60K isn't exactly 60K when you have 100K+ worth of debt you're paying off while living in very expensive SoCal.

[Jeffleo7]

tfleming

your comment:

"This is terrible advice."

Why is this? - please elaborate

Thanks

[flem]

Why is this? - please elaborate

Thanks

Sure

I would only consider Loyola, UW and Emory.
Emory would mean probably working in GA at least initially.

You're staying put after graduation, most likely in GA. Law is not a mobile career. You set up shop and build a client base. No one wants to take on a 50 year old associate at a major law firm if you want to move.

UW - likely washington, although enough grads do return to Souhern CA.

No, they don't, with very few exceptions. If you want CA, go to school in CA.

Another possibility, if you do well, is to transfer afer L1 to a better college.

This is the worst of this terrible advice. Conventional wisdom says two things here:

1) It's way, way easier to retake the LSAT, do better, and go to a better school than it is to go to a lesser school, finish top 10%, and then transfer somewhere worthwhile
2) Never attend a school you wouldn't be happy graduating from in the first place, since, from a pure odds standpoint, you're probably not special and likely to finish median

Since you are in LA, simply call a few large firms and ask their opinion of Loyola.

LA bros are going to have a high opinion of Loyola LA. I live in Georgia and people have a high opinion of Mercer. Local reputation and respect is worthless unless it translates into career prospects.

Like I said, Loyola LA is fine if it's cheap enough. If it's a 50% scholarship with some terrible stip, you're at best case scenario still going to be indebted to the tune of 100K (at least) which is too much.

[romothesavior]

This isn't awful, but doesn't Loyola have that awful top third stip?

I'd use the rest of these to negotiate with Loyola if you want to stay in California. You're still looking at 100K+ worth of debt here. It's great that you're fine with living with less money and everything, but remember 60K isn't exactly 60K when you have 100K+ worth of debt you're paying off while living in very expensive SoCal.

60k would be a huge salary doing the type of PI work OP is talking about. 30-40k is more realistic, if that. And most importantly, she might not even find a paying job. These organizations are just not hiring in numbers, which means OP could very well wind up without any legal job to speak of. I'm sure they'd love some volunteers, but how do you service 100k+ of debt with no salary?

I hope she read my post above and considers the possibility of unemployment. I applaud her goals, but with her school options, expected debt, and the awful PI market, this is likely not a wise decision. She needs to reassess her situation. Retaking, getting relevant work experience, and reapplying is the credited move.

[flem]

60k would be a huge salary doing the type of PI work OP is talking about. 30-40k is more realistic, if that. And most importantly, she might not even find a paying job. These organizations are just not hiring in numbers, which means OP could very well wind up without any legal job to speak of.

I hope she read my post above and considers the possibility of unemployment. I applaud her goals, but with her school options, expected debt, and the awful PI market, this is likely not a wise decision. She needs to reassess her situation. Retaking, getting relevant work experience, and reapplying is the credited move.

So much this

If you really want to do public interest work, you really don't have to incur 100K+ of non-dischargeable debt to do so. If so, I admire your intentions.

[kmason]

Hi Jeffleo,

I know 2 people who transferred to UCLA from Southwestern (tier 3) in LA, but rather than rely fully on these forums where most of what we can tell you about ransferring is less reliable than other types of advice, I suggest you read this:
(what one professional whose book has helped law school applicants and who has helped quite a few students transfer to top schools)

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

good luck

[flem]

Hi Jeffleo,

I know 2 people who transferred to UCLA from Southwestern (tier 3) in LA, but rather than rely fully on these forums where most of what we can tell you about ransferring is less reliable than other types of advice, I suggest you read this:
(what one professional whose book has helped law school applicants and who has helped quite a few students transfer to top schools)

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

good luck

Instead of relying on anecdotal evidence, rely on this anecdotal evidence

[lobolawyer]

Hi Jeffleo,

I know 2 people who transferred to UCLA from Southwestern (tier 3) in LA, but rather than rely fully on these forums where most of what we can tell you about ransferring is less reliable than other types of advice, I suggest you read this:
(what one professional whose book has helped law school applicants and who has helped quite a few students transfer to top schools)

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

good luck

Instead of relying on anecdotal evidence, rely on this anecdotal evidence

[romothesavior]

Hi Jeffleo,

I know 2 people who transferred to UCLA from Southwestern (tier 3) in LA, but rather than rely fully on these forums where most of what we can tell you about ransferring is less reliable than other types of advice, I suggest you read this:
(what one professional whose book has helped law school applicants and who has helped quite a few students transfer to top schools)

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

good luck

Instead of relying on anecdotal evidence, rely on this anecdotal evidence

Haha seriously. Nothing better than the, "You guys are just an echo chamber/regurgitating anecdotes/misinformed. Let me tell you about my friend who went to Insert TTT here and made it big!" schtick

[SunshineMagic]

http://alumni.lls.edu/profiles/Allred.html

[flem]

http://alumni.lls.edu/profiles/Allred.html

[rad lulz]

Hi Jeffleo,

I know 2 people who transferred to UCLA from Southwestern (tier 3) in LA, but rather than rely fully on these forums where most of what we can tell you about ransferring is less reliable than other types of advice, I suggest you read this:
(what one professional whose book has helped law school applicants and who has helped quite a few students transfer to top schools)

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

good luck

lolololol this is straight moronic

[SunshineMagic]

You should go to Loyola if Gloria Allred can do it so can you!!! Sue the boys club!!!

[Jeffleo7]

Thanks, Sunshine,

Good link.

Thanks also to kmason - I just visited that website - yes, I've actually read one of her books before - was helpful.
Strange how some on this site think they know more than Ms Levine who has helped place law students for over 8 years.
I noticed the most vocal ones do not show their GPA or LSAT scores - wonder why.
I'm sure any #s posted now will be exaggerated, to say the least.

They sound very angry, like some of those I helped during my 3+ years. If they lived here, our organization would help them at no charge. Often it is dissatisfaction with their lot in life or thwarted ambitions. However, after even a few weeks of therapy their outlook on life changes, and the really sweet person within is slowly revealed. Such a satisfying change to help effect.

To all those who genuinely cared and helped, - thank you.

I bid you all adieu.

[flem]

Thanks, Sunshine,

Good link.

Thanks also to kmason - I just visited that website - yes, I've actually read one of her books before - was helpful.
Strange how some on this site think they know more than Ms Levine who has helped place law students for over 8 years.
I noticed the most vocal ones do not show their GPA or LSAT scores - wonder why.

Don't take that bros advice.

I have a 3.01 and a 162 which is why I'm retaking for non-shitty options. But I have significant work experience both in and out of the legal industry that help me understand how terrible the legal market currently is.

Either way good luck to you.

[rad lulz]

Thanks, Sunshine,

Good link.

Thanks also to kmason - I just visited that website - yes, I've actually read one of her books before - was helpful.
Strange how some on this site think they know more than Ms Levine who has helped place law students for over 8 years.
I noticed the most vocal ones do not show their GPA or LSAT scores - wonder why.
I'm sure any #s posted now will be exaggerated, to say the least.

They sound very angry, like some of those I helped during my 3+ years. If they lived here, our organization would help them at no charge. Often it is dissatisfaction with their lot in life or thwarted ambitions. However, after even a few weeks of therapy their outlook on life changes, and the really sweet person within is slowly revealed. Such a satisfying change to help effect.

To all those who genuinely cared and helped, - thank you.

I bid you all adieu.

Does you knowing my numbers (I'm no longer an applicant) bear in ANY WAY on the advice I've given? That is sublimely idiotic.

I suggest not asking for advice and then complaining when you get it, or only agreeing with the advice that conforms to your preconceived notions. It's a useful life skill.

HTH

[flem]

Does you knowing my numbers (I'm no longer an applicant) bear in ANY WAY on the advice I've given? That is sublimely idiotic.

I suggest not asking for advice and then complaining when you get it, or only agreeing with the advice that conforms to your preconceived notions. It's a useful life skill.

HTH

Also this

[SunshineMagic]

Thanks, Sunshine,

Good link.

Thanks also to kmason - I just visited that website - yes, I've actually read one of her books before - was helpful.
Strange how some on this site think they know more than Ms Levine who has helped place law students for over 8 years.
I noticed the most vocal ones do not show their GPA or LSAT scores - wonder why.
I'm sure any #s posted now will be exaggerated, to say the least.

They sound very angry, like some of those I helped during my 3+ years. If they lived here, our organization would help them at no charge. Often it is dissatisfaction with their lot in life or thwarted ambitions. However, after even a few weeks of therapy their outlook on life changes, and the really sweet person within is slowly revealed. Such a satisfying change to help effect.

To all those who genuinely cared and helped, - thank you.

I bid you all adieu.

Don't do public interest law for womens rights you won't change anything and you will be broke. Put the fear of lawsuit/god in CEOs who sleep with secretaries and make money doing it! Follow in Allred's footsteps. Smoke some sausage!

[romothesavior]

OP, I have given you multiple genuine, thought out, and reasoned responses. I have been trying to give you an idea of what you are up against, what kind of job market you are looking at, and the kind of debt you will have to take out. Multiple others have also tried to do the same.

You asked for advice and insight, and now you get mad when we give it to you. I'm sorry that you're getting responses you don't want to hear, but TLS isn't just going to tell you that you're making a great decision when you're clearly not. It is pretty sad that you won't even take the time to consider our responses or (apparently) even acknowledge them.

[071816]