Deciding btw six T14 schools... all sticker. Forum

[WhereToGo2015]

Hey There!

I've been out of undergrad 2 years, and I currently live in NYC. After law school I would like to clerk, and then work in NYC or DC big law (I know DC is harder to break, but I went to undergrad in DC, and I slightly prefer it to NYC).

I'm trying to decide between the following T14 schools. If I have visited, my impressions are noted. I'm having a hard time being satisfied with the whole "you can't make a wrong choice, pick based on "feel"/"fit"... but if that's the case for what I'm looking for, so be it, I suppose.

- Berkeley (loved it-got an $8k need-based grant, essentially making it same total CoA as the others)
- UVA (didn't care for the "vibe")
- Michigan (really liked it)
- Georgetown (didn't love the school... but love DC)
- Cornell (have not visited yet)
- Northwestern (have not visited yet)

Costs are about equal everywhere, since it looks like I'd be paying sticker everywhere (though still waiting to hear back from UVA re: merit aid, and got a "maybe" on merit aid from Georgetown). [I have WL'd at: Chicago, Columbia, NYU, and Penn.]

I TRULY appreciate your input. I'm stressing! Thanks so much!

[Aberzombie1892]

I like Michigan, but I don't believe that there is any reason to choose Michigan over Northwestern if they are the same price (Northwestern is nationally recognized like Michigan, but Northwestern is stronger in Chicago than Michigan).

Georgetown is not quite as good as the others, and, given they want you to pay full COA, it's simply not worth it in either abstract or in comparison with the others.

If you don't like UVA, just don't go.

Choose between Berkeley (CA, NY, other markets where you have ties), Northwestern (IL, NY, other markets where you have ties), or Cornell (NY, maybe MA/PA, and other markets where you have ties).

[dixiecupdrinking]

I think this is mainly a "pick based on feel" situation, unfortunately—to an extent. I think you can toss Georgetown out unless you really, really, really want to live in DC during law school.

I would also throw out Virginia if you didn't like the feel. I find UVA to be a very peculiar school among the T14, in terms of location and culture, and people seem to either love it or hate. If it turns out you get significant money from them, then maybe reassess, but at equal cost there's no need to consider them given your other choices.

I would say go to Berkeley but their biglaw placement, especially on the east coast, gives me pause. People say this is mostly self-selection, and I do basically believe that. If I moved to the Bay Area I probably wouldn't want to come back to NYC for work, either. But it is still something to think about. You may want to try to speak to current 2Ls/3Ls at Berkeley.

I think Berkeley is just barely in the lead here, followed very closely by Michigan, then Northwestern/Cornell, but absent some compelling reason to go to one of those, I don't see why this should be anything but Berk or Mich.

[CanadianWolf]

Discard Virginia & Georgetown.

[Doorkeeper]

Sounds like you pick between Berkeley and Michigan...

[woeisme]

No reason to keep UVA and Georgetown on the list.

Michigan, Cornell, and Northwestern might be willing to match the grant you received from Berkeley. I know it was need-based, but I'm not sure that it would matter. You can try to leverage that.

I'm inclined to agree with Aberzombie's recommendation that you pick Berkeley for CA, Northwestern for IL, and Cornell for NY. This would essentially mean picking Cornell given your goals. However, it's a close enough call that personal preference can and probably should factor in a bit. Try and get out to Northwestern and Cornell for a visit.

[WhereToGo2015]

Thanks so much for the replies. I really appreciate it.

I suppose it really is between M and B... I will probably choose Berkeley (got a great vibe, really loved it), unless Mich (which I also really liked) just makes more sense for going back to the east coast?

I have asked a lot of Berkeley students about their ability to go back east, and they made it sound like it's *easier* than going for CA big law, due to less competition. I want to believe them... but not sure.

Also, I know M has slightly better clerkship placement? Not sure how much those slight edges matter though.

[jkpolk]

Berkeley

[Bgibbs]

You want to go to Berkeley, so go there.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I have asked a lot of Berkeley students about their ability to go back east, and they made it sound like it's *easier* than going for CA big law, due to less competition. I want to believe them... but not sure.

This does make sense, if for no other reason than there are more jobs in NYC than in California. But the relevant comparison isn't really whether Berkeley students have it easier on the east or west coast—it's whether Michigan or Berkeley students have it easier on the east coast. Unfortunately there are too many factors to know the answer to this.

Also, I know M has slightly better clerkship placement? Not sure how much those slight edges matter though.

I would argue they don't matter very much. All these schools will give you the same odds at A3 clerkships within 2-3% or so. Not a factor worth worrying over IMO.

I'd just go to Berkeley if you loved it. That counts for something and is really the only distinction you can know for sure among these schools. The rest is a lot of conjecture, parsing statistics for minute trends, etc. They're all pretty much close enough.

[Nelson]

What are your numbers? Getting into all of these schools but no scholarship sounds like a big reverse split. If that's the case, a retake would put you in a much better financial position with scholarships.

[WhereToGo2015]

What are your numbers? Getting into all of these schools but no scholarship sounds like a big reverse split. If that's the case, a retake would put you in a much better financial position with scholarships.

Yep! Reverse split...4.0+ and 166... after 3 LSAT administrations, including 2 this cycle (Oct. and Dec.)... and my second take this cycle I got the same exact score... don't know what the f is wrong w/ me. Yeah, don't know what to say. Pretty scared of risking another re-take. I think I should probably enroll somewhere in the fall.

[mighttransfer]

I wouldn't be so quick to discard UVA despite disliking the school's "vibe." For me, not liking a school's vibe, alone, wouldn't be sufficient for me to discard that school particularly when the school places strongly in my desired markets. You want DC or NYC biglaw. UVA provides the best prospects for BOTH of those markets, whereas several of your other options (e.g., Cornell) would likely limit you to one of your desired markets. I would, however, discard Northwestern and Georgetown. If, however, you really really hated UVA, then I think you should go with Michigan.

[gymboree]

Berkeley v. Michigan
you loved Boalt, you've admitted Michigan would have to give you more $ to sway you. Heart=Berkeley

NYC jobs. Here, we have variables like grades, interview style, experience, etc. That would go with you no matter what school you go to, so set that aside (and just get good grades). That said, from what I hear from friends, our class of '13 Boalties did very well back East/NYC. Those I know who were targeting NYC had several offers from V10 firms there. Others are going to NYC, even though they were interviewing all over (geographically).

End of the story is that the job interviews/opportunities are going to be similar enough out of Boalt/Michigan, that the difference will hinge on YOU, not on the school. Head=Boalt/Michigan are both great.

If you loved Boalt, go to Boalt.

[Tadatsune]

If you loved Boalt, go to Boalt.

[WhereToGo2015]

thanks so much, all!

[berkeleykel06]

For your goals UVA seems like the best choice. Marginally better clerkship and DC placement than your other options, plus the access to NYC. What is it you didn't like about UVA? I absolutely HATED it when I visited for ASW but ended up here anyway because it made the most sense in my situation. I ended up really liking it and I'm glad I didn't let my first impressions affect my decision to attend here.

[catwomangirl]

Berkeley!

[WhereToGo2015]

For your goals UVA seems like the best choice. Marginally better clerkship and DC placement than your other options, plus the access to NYC. What is it you didn't like about UVA? I absolutely HATED it when I visited for ASW but ended up here anyway because it made the most sense in my situation. I ended up really liking it and I'm glad I didn't let my first impressions affect my decision to attend here.

Thanks, PM'd

[FavoriteColorGRUE]

I'm faced w/ a similar decision -- good luck!

[Julio_El_Chavo]

For your goals UVA seems like the best choice. Marginally better clerkship and DC placement than your other options, plus the access to NYC. What is it you didn't like about UVA? I absolutely HATED it when I visited for ASW but ended up here anyway because it made the most sense in my situation. I ended up really liking it and I'm glad I didn't let my first impressions affect my decision to attend here.

CR. There are actually a few UVA law students who aren't douchebags. It's just that the douchebags stand out from the crowd more.

[chasgoose]

I would probably choose the school you liked best then. DC biglaw is hard to get from anywhere, so I wouldn't base your decision on that (also Georgetown is going to be the worst school of your options for DC). Since none of those schools are going to give you a leg up for NYC biglaw and also none of them will be detrimental to NYC biglaw I would choose the one you like best. I don't really buy the whole Northwestern will give you access to Chicago as a secondary market thing. NYC is still the easiest market to get a biglaw job in. It's still going to be harder to get a job in Chicago from Northwestern than NYC and if you would rather be in NYC anyways, I don't see how the slightly more available Chicago market is a big advantage. It sounds like your decision is between Berkeley and Michigan, decide which one you like best and go there.

[JamMasterJ]

Michigan unless you get CCN. All these schools are relatively equal. It's mostly about fit at that point.

[rayiner]

Go to Berkeley.

[bilbobaggins]

I think this is mainly a "pick based on feel" situation, unfortunately—to an extent. I think you can toss Georgetown out unless you really, really, really want to live in DC during law school.

I would also throw out Virginia if you didn't like the feel. I find UVA to be a very peculiar school among the T14, in terms of location and culture, and people seem to either love it or hate. If it turns out you get significant money from them, then maybe reassess, but at equal cost there's no need to consider them given your other choices.

I would say go to Berkeley but their biglaw placement, especially on the east coast, gives me pause. People say this is mostly self-selection, and I do basically believe that. If I moved to the Bay Area I probably wouldn't want to come back to NYC for work, either. But it is still something to think about. You may want to try to speak to current 2Ls/3Ls at Berkeley.

I think Berkeley is just barely in the lead here, followed very closely by Michigan, then Northwestern/Cornell, but absent some compelling reason to go to one of those, I don't see why this should be anything but Berk or Mich.

I know a shit ton of people that struck out in SF and are about to graduate and go work in NYC and DC. It's self-selection.