UMN $$$ vs. ND $$ Forum

[justnicholas]

I am from the West Coast, but since my gpa is not as stellar as a lot of people I have to look at other options. I wanted your opinions on Minnesota versus Notre Dame. I know they are regional and blah blah blah, but they are the best scholls I got into and they are some of the cheapest actually.

About me - I am coming straight from undergrad with no debt and while not completely set on law, I figure it doesn't hurt (I know someone will chew me out, but how is a 21 year old supposed to be set on a career path). I am open to relocating to the midwest, but prefer coasts. I have no ties to the midwest what so ever and I understand this can be a bad idea, but I am looking for something new.

Options:

Notre Dame - They gave me 25,000 a year with no stipulations which is nice. I am really interested in studying abroad a year in london just for fun. I keep reading things about South Bend being not so great, but that Notre Dame's name caries more weight in the midwest as well as the country than most other regional schools and not being a native I don't know how it compares to Minnesota.

Minnesota - They gave me 35,000 with a 2.5 gpa stipulation, but tuition is more expensive (so it is roughly $18,000 cheaper than ND overall). Minneapolis sounds like a cool place, weather is a concern but I can live with it. It is better ranked (barely) than ND and I was wondering if it is viewed as a better institution?

So cost of living looks similar. South Bend might be cheaper, but closer to campus it looks like it is actually more expensive or similar price.

What is your advice? and no I won't retake, I studied 2 and a half months and my real test was my highest score. I can take a year off and reapply, but I don't think I can get into much better schools esspecially since I think I am a mediocre applicant to them.

[geoduck]

Neither is great for the coasts, but at least you already have ties. Notre Dame has great lay prestige. But so does Gonzaga.

[thexfactor]

I am from the West Coast, but since my gpa is not as stellar as a lot of people I have to look at other options. I wanted your opinions on Minnesota versus Notre Dame. I know they are regional and blah blah blah, but they are the best scholls I got into and they are some of the cheapest actually.

About me - I am coming straight from undergrad with no debt and while not completely set on law, I figure it doesn't hurt (I know someone will chew me out, but how is a 21 year old supposed to be set on a career path). I am open to relocating to the midwest, but prefer coasts. I have no ties to the midwest what so ever and I understand this can be a bad idea, but I am looking for something new.

Options:

Notre Dame - They gave me 25,000 a year with no stipulations which is nice. I am really interested in studying abroad a year in london just for fun. I keep reading things about South Bend being not so great, but that Notre Dame's name caries more weight in the midwest as well as the country than most other regional schools and not being a native I don't know how it compares to Minnesota.

Minnesota - They gave me 35,000 with a 2.5 gpa stipulation, but tuition is more expensive (so it is roughly $18,000 cheaper than ND overall). Minneapolis sounds like a cool place, weather is a concern but I can live with it. It is better ranked (barely) than ND and I was wondering if it is viewed as a better institution?

So cost of living looks similar. South Bend might be cheaper, but closer to campus it looks like it is actually more expensive or similar price.

What is your advice? and no I won't retake, I studied 2 and a half months and my real test was my highest score. I can take a year off and reapply, but I don't think I can get into much better schools esspecially since I think I am a mediocre applicant to them.

I read in a previous post that you have a 3.6 and a 167. The problem with not retaking is that Uminn and ND have a lot worse career prospects as compared to UCLA/USC/Vanderbilt.

You want the west coast, it will be hard from either ND or Uminn. You will prob have to be in the top 20% to have a chance.

Sit a year out and maybe you can get into USC or UCLA.

[justnicholas]

I dunno what happened to the title of the thread, but whatever.

I know if I retake my score is just going to go down honestly. I did get waitlisted at USC, but at sticker I don't know if I am comfortable with that.

[sunynp]

Check the date. LOL.

[justnicholas]

How is that a funny April Fools thing? Seems kinda lame.

[PARTY]

u mad?

[thexfactor]

I dunno what happened to the title of the thread, but whatever.

I know if I You should go to law school this cycle. my score is just going to go down honestly. I did get waitlisted at USC, but at sticker I don't know if I am comfortable with that.

Just pointing out that don't think you should feel comfortable going to Uminn or ND when they place less than 15% of their respective class in NLJ250 firms. USC places in the 3x%.

Law is bimodal and once you miss the high paying jobs in the beginning of your career, it is often really hard to get them later on in your career.

You might graduate with no debt but also no job.

[justnicholas]

I don't know if I want Biglaw. I think I would rather find something more manageable for less pay then a 60 hour work week.

Is USC/UCLA worth sticker over ND or UMN with money? I feel like it is not worth that kind of risk when I probably won't even get biglaw.

Thats why I am settling on these two for now because the debt load seems manageable and they are both fairly respect (although non-t14) schools.

[justnicholas]

Shameless bump.

Is USC/UCLA at sticker worth more than ND or UMN for this cheap even?

[tlsposter]

Neither will travel well outside of the midwest.

[CanadianWolf]

Notre Dame due to better name recognition, wider alumni base & no stips scholarship.

Did you apply to UBC or Toronto ? Are your numbers in the 167/3.62 range ?

[Nova]

Shameless bump.

Is USC/UCLA at sticker worth more than ND or UMN for this cheap even?

I got that same scholarship at UMN and will be there in the fall. Did you go to one of the ASWs? I fell in love with Minneapolis quickly. Its a very clean city with not much poverty. Coming from a big city in the south, it was shocking to not see homeless people up and down the down town streets.

My advice would be to go to where ever "feels" right.

[justnicholas]

Notre Dame due to better name recognition, wider alumni base & no stips scholarship.

Did you apply to UBC or Toronto ? Are your numbers in the 167/3.62 range ?

No I didn't apply to them since I missed there deadlines. I would love to live in Vancouver (probably one of my favorite cities) and I have actually visited UofT and wasn't totally impressed, but if it gave me free roam over Canada I would.

Anyhow, this is a rough decision for me. Deposits are due for on Friday.

I could sit out and wait another cycle, but I don't know if things could get much better.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Notre Dame due to better name recognition, wider alumni base & no stips scholarship.

Did you apply to UBC or Toronto ? Are your numbers in the 167/3.62 range ?

No I didn't apply to them since I missed there deadlines. I would love to live in Vancouver (probably one of my favorite cities) and I have actually visited UofT and wasn't totally impressed, but if it gave me free roam over Canada I would.

Anyhow, this is a rough decision for me. Deposits are due for on Friday.

I could sit out and wait another cycle, but I don't know if things could get much better.

If you devoted serious time and effort to studying for a retake, I think you will surprise yourself with what you're capable of. I was able to increase by score 19 points, and there was multiple times where I thought I had plateaued, but I ended up being able to fight through it.

I don't think either of these options is that bad. Both have decent placement and you will be limiting your debt. ND has a better reputation that UMN, IMO, but neither will be opening too many doors for you on the coasts. Go look at their employment numbers for the last three years (and make sure you read between the lines to really understand what the numbers mean). I think ND has better placement overall than UMN, but you should fact check me on that. (There might be some difficulty in finding that data--you might want to try and get it from current students.) See also http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=181415 .

UCLA and USC will give you a much better chance at getting a job in california, and if you can get a high enough LSAT score on retake you might be competitive for money. (You also should consider Davis and Hastings since either option with significant money would probably be better options than your current ones for CA.) If your goal is NYC, then if you can just bump up your LSAT a few points you will have a shot at the lower T14, which gives you a much better chance at biglaw there as opposed to ND or UMN.

TL;DR: Your options are fine (and there isn't an obvious choice between the two), but your options could be significantly better if you are patient and wait a year.