USC 90K vs. Cornell Sticker
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:58 pm
I'm trying to narrow down my options... please share your thoughts. I know many people are in this situation so maybe this will be helpful to more than just myself
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Anywhere, I'm from Santa Monica so just outside of LA, I am somewhat debt averse, and I want a good paying job in the private sector. Thanks in advancechimp wrote:Where do you wanna work? Where you from? How debt averse are you? What kind of law do you want?
I voted USC because that's a shitload of money and you're form L.A. You have no business paying sticker at Cornell unless you have an irrational preference for NYC big law. USC all the way.ocuviper wrote:Anywhere, I'm from Santa Monica so just outside of LA, I am somewhat debt averse, and I want a good paying job in the private sector. Thanks in advancechimp wrote:Where do you wanna work? Where you from? How debt averse are you? What kind of law do you want?
There is only one rational way to decide this...ocuviper wrote:I'm trying to narrow down my options... please share your thoughts. I know many people are in this situation so maybe this will be helpful to more than just myself
What I really care about is having a decent, so 90-160K, living. I understand that Cornell has higher employment prospects, but 200+ in debt is risky and I don't know if I can put myself under that kind of pressure.woeisme wrote:Well Cornell has better employment prospects, but if all you care about is general private practice employment and if you'd be happy staying in California, USC with that kinda money would def make sense. I think if I were you I'd try and leverage the USC money with Cornell. If they give you some money, I'd probably pick that just to broaden my options.
I don't have thoughts on this really.ocuviper wrote:Any thoughts on the LA market in general? Do you think it will struggle as the CA state continues to crumble or is that more of a public sector thing?woeisme wrote:Well Cornell has better employment prospects, but if all you care about is general private practice employment and if you'd be happy staying in California, USC with that kinda money would def make sense. I think if I were you I'd try and leverage the USC money with Cornell. If they give you some money, I'd probably pick that just to broaden my options.
I just went to the Cornell ASD and they were throwing around a statistics that at least 80% of the current class has a job lined up at a firm with at least 100 lawyers. Obviously, not all of these are NLJ 250 firms or whatnot, but that's still an impressive statistic for me. I would love to see the actual numbers on that, but if it's true it could be significant if you are looking for a firm job post-law school. How much of this is puffery by the Career Services is tough to tell.ocuviper wrote:Can someone please provide an argument for Cornell? I'm having a tough time with this decision and would appreciate any help.
Cornell's BigLaw placement numbers seem healthier, but I'm not too good at analyzing cost and benefit
The argument from Cornell is essentially broader and increased employment opportunities. Because your ties are already in California, if you go to USC you'll likely be limited to employment in California and, though your odds of landing private sector are pretty good, "biglaw" is uncertain.ocuviper wrote:Can someone please provide an argument for Cornell? I'm having a tough time with this decision and would appreciate any help.
Cornell's BigLaw placement numbers seem healthier, but I'm not too good at analyzing cost and benefit
Then DO NOT invest a quarter of a million dollars in Cornell. That's how much it will cost after tuition, educational expenses, CoL for three years, and compounded interest.ocuviper wrote:Cornell's BigLaw placement numbers seem healthier, but I'm not too good at analyzing cost and benefit
With a CoA at $72,000+/year, USC with 90k would still leave OP in considerable debt. $120k+ in debt would still need BigLaw to pay off. At that level of debt, wouldn't you want to maximize your potential for getting a BigLaw job? OP's ties would definitely help him to get back to California from Cornell as well.seancris wrote:Then DO NOT invest a quarter of a million dollars in Cornell. That's how much it will cost after tuition, educational expenses, CoL for three years, and compounded interest.ocuviper wrote:Cornell's BigLaw placement numbers seem healthier, but I'm not too good at analyzing cost and benefit
90K at USC is a great offer, and your ties are in California. You'll have way less debt, good prospects, and your prospects will be enhanced by your ties to the area. Go to USC.
Those CoL numbers are probably inflated significantly. OP could probably borrow 100k and make it work. 100-120k in any case wouldn't necessarily need biglaw. Extended term loans could make the payments manageable, and if OP wanted to do PI at some point, he could take advantage of LRAPs.bigeast03 wrote:$120k+ in debt would still need BigLaw to pay off. At that level of debt, wouldn't you want to maximize your potential for getting a BigLaw job? OP's ties would definitely help him to get back to California from Cornell as well.
But, like Woeisme suggested, negotiating with Cornell for money definitely seems like the best course of action right now.
I mean, I have no dog in this fight, but I do think you should present both numbers fairly. If you're going to round-up for Cornell and by tack on interest for the CoA, but you'll say OP can borrow less than the CoA for USC and not worry about adding on interest for that, then the numbers will certainly make it look more appealing for USC. Assuming CoA for both is fairly reliable/accurate, it would be about 126k for USC, and 224k for Cornell (before interest). Monthly payments for USC would be $1450, and for Cornell they would be $2577 (assuming 10 year repayment).seancris wrote:Those CoL numbers are probably inflated significantly. OP could probably borrow 100k and make it work. 100-120k in any case wouldn't necessarily need biglaw. Extended term loans could make the payments manageable, and if OP wanted to do PI at some point, he could take advantage of LRAPs.bigeast03 wrote:$120k+ in debt would still need BigLaw to pay off. At that level of debt, wouldn't you want to maximize your potential for getting a BigLaw job? OP's ties would definitely help him to get back to California from Cornell as well.
But, like Woeisme suggested, negotiating with Cornell for money definitely seems like the best course of action right now.
I don't think it's good advice to borrow an additional 150k just because you're going to borrow six figures anyway. You can make 100k work without biglaw, you can't make 250k work.
Wasn't trying to stretch numbers, just pointing out that OP probably could borrow less than 120k at USC. I even granted 120k as bolded above. I don't have a dog in the fight either, other than bias against 200k+ debt levels for students who "aren't good at cost/benefit analysis."bigeast03 wrote:I mean, I have no dog in this fight, but I do think you should present both numbers fairly. If you're going to round-up for Cornell and by tack on interest for the CoA, but you'll say OP can borrow less than the CoA for USC and not worry about adding on interest for that, then the numbers will certainly make it look more appealing for USC. Assuming CoA for both is fairly reliable/accurate, it would be about 126k for USC, and 224k for Cornell (before interest). Monthly payments for USC would be $1450, and for Cornell they would be $2577 (assuming 10 year repayment). Both schools provide adequate LRAP support should OP want to do PI. Cornell is definitely more expensive, but there's no need to stretch numbers to make your argument. Also, OP has not yet negotiated with Cornell to see whether he will manage a scholarship there or not.seancris wrote:Those CoL numbers are probably inflated significantly. OP could probably borrow 100k and make it work. 100-120k in any case wouldn't necessarily need biglaw. Extended term loans could make the payments manageable, and if OP wanted to do PI at some point, he could take advantage of LRAPs.
I don't think it's good advice to borrow an additional 150k just because you're going to borrow six figures anyway. You can make 100k work without biglaw, you can't make 250k work.