Top Law Schools

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simpleAs wrote:~Tuition/yr:
WUSTL: $11k
ND: $18k
OSU (in-state): $10k

I am from the Cleveland area without a substantial preference of where I want to practice. I see myself in the Midwest (Cleveland, Columbus, and Chicago are appealing), but if I could have a shot at the West Coast, I would be very interested. All-in-all, I want to attend the school that will provide me the best chance to secure a high-paying job early.

I have a few hang-ups regarding these schools.
1) What will be the employment prospect differences coming out of WUSTL vs. ND? Is it safe to say placement into the Midwest is roughly equal out of these peer schools? How about in regards to a shot at California?

2) WUSTL's QoL. Is the "college town" good, lively? Is St. Louis accessible and often utilized by WUSTL students for social, cultural benefits? I am a current undergrad at ND and a large reason why ND is not my top choice is I am not enamored with South Bend. I am looking to study in a vibrant area filled with young people.

3) Despite its rank vs. the other two, I'm drawn to Ohio State for a few reasons: First, the social advantages of Columbus are what I feel I missed out in undergrad-- a large college town, an endless amount of young students, a plethora of restaurants, venues, etc. Second, it is the cheapest and closest to home. I am curious as to how different job prospects will be out of OSU versus the other two; I would imagine OSU would close the door to anything beyond Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincinnati- but in those markets is OSU the most sound decision?

Notre Dame has the benefit of a very widely scattered alumni base, so while it would probably be better for California, that isn't saying very much, especially for someone with zero ties to the West Coast.

Are you sure you got your total costs right?

I've lived in Columbus and am at WUSTL now, and Columbus is more of a college town if you're living near campus. I don't know if I'd describe St Louis as "vibrant," but I feel like there's at least as much to do as there was in Columbus, maybe a little bit more.

If you're tired of South Bend, don't go to ND. I have a classmate who went to ND for undergrad and chose WUSTL over it for law school because they're pretty equivalent and he was tired of South Bend. He's very happy with his decision.

In OH, with ties, WUSTL will probably do as well for you as OSU for big firms. Maybe not in Columbus.

simpleAs wrote:~Tuition/yr:
WUSTL: $11k
ND: $18k
OSU (in-state): $10k

I am from the Cleveland area without a substantial preference of where I want to practice. I see myself in the Midwest (Cleveland, Columbus, and Chicago are appealing), but if I could have a shot at the West Coast, I would be very interested. All-in-all, I want to attend the school that will provide me the best chance to secure a high-paying job early.

I have a few hang-ups regarding these schools.
1) What will be the employment prospect differences coming out of WUSTL vs. ND? Is it safe to say placement into the Midwest is roughly equal out of these peer schools? How about in regards to a shot at California?

2) WUSTL's QoL. Is the "college town" good, lively? Is St. Louis accessible and often utilized by WUSTL students for social, cultural benefits? I am a current undergrad at ND and a large reason why ND is not my top choice is I am not enamored with South Bend. I am looking to study in a vibrant area filled with young people.

3) Despite its rank vs. the other two, I'm drawn to Ohio State for a few reasons: First, the social advantages of Columbus are what I feel I missed out in undergrad-- a large college town, an endless amount of young students, a plethora of restaurants, venues, etc. Second, it is the cheapest and closest to home. I am curious as to how different job prospects will be out of OSU versus the other two; I would imagine OSU would close the door to anything beyond Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincinnati- but in those markets is OSU the most sound decision?

Full disclosure - WUSTL student.

I'd knock out OSU - ND and WUSTL both place better. As best as I can tell, OSU wasn't even in the top 50 for placement given the last data we've seen, meaning that less than 7% of their students were placed into NLJ 250 firms. WUSTL and ND both had twice that rate. You'd need good grades to get biglaw from OSU anyway, and those same grades from ND and WUSTL would open up possibilities at better firms. WUSTL gets Ohio firms at OCI and you have ties (and thus an advantage) - I'm sure ND's similarly situated. No reason to take on the same amount of debt for worse prospects.

Next, there's minimal difference between ND and WUSTL's placement. See e.g. the latest NLJ rankings, where both were cringe-inducing. If you don't have ties to the west coast, you're probably not going to get there from either school without having good grades. People definitely get biglaw jobs out there from WUSTL, and ND students say the same, but without a tech background or ties you can't count on it.

StL is accessible and students frequently make use of its social/cultural aspect. The school's right next to an awesome park and there's free stuff everywhere - the zoo's free and one of the best in the country, museums are free, even the metro (light rail) that takes you to these places are free for WUSTL students. Cardinals games are always a good time, as are (so I'm told) Rams and Blues games. That being said, I wouldn't base my decision on lifestyle when there are substantive differences between the schools you're looking at - that's something you do when you're deciding between Cornell and Georgetown with equal money, not OSU and ND/WUSTL with near equal money. Given that you're not enchanted with South Bend and it'd be 20k more expensive to go there, WUSTL seems like the better option to me.

tl;dr - WUSTL's better than OSU if they're the same price, and ND's probably worth the extra 20k over OSU. If you could negotiate ND to the same price, then I'd visit WUSTL and then pick whichever one you like best. Otherwise, I'd take WUSTL because it's pretty equal to ND and is 20k cheaper.

I am also a WUSTL student, but only a 1L, so I haven't done OCI. I have heard though that OSU is king in OH from the two biglaw partners I talked to before I decided on a school. I chose WUSTL anyway because I figured it would be at least equivalent with ties, and because if I end up doing really well, I'll have options I wuoldn't have had at OSU.

Kabuo wrote:I am also a WUSTL student, but only a 1L, so I haven't done OCI. I have heard though that OSU is king in OH from the two biglaw partners I talked to before I decided on a school. I chose WUSTL anyway because I figured it would be at least equivalent with ties, and because if I end up doing really well, I'll have options I wuoldn't have had at OSU.

I'll buy that they're king... but if they're only putting 5% into NLJ firms, it's not much of a kingdom (by which I mean it's going to be hard as hell to take advantage of that fact). They were only at 10% last year too, which was still just half of WUSTL and ND's rates for that year. Probably better to be at one of the schools that gives you more options, and definitely better when those schools are at or near the same price.

I woudl prob say ND in your case if you want to practice in Cleveland/Columbus ie upper midwest area.
ND gives you better job placement as compared to OSU.
WUSTL=ND is basically the same in terms of nlj250 placement. However, I think ND has a better reputation in the upper midwaste ie Detroit, Grand Rapids, Columbus, Cleveland. Check regional NLJ250 firms and you can count how many wustl grads there are vs ND grads.

I think WUSTL does a better job in the great plains region ie KC, Omaha, STL.

Nd has placed more students in California than any other state Except Illinois. Of a class of 180 29 went to Illinois and 22 to California. The only other state with double digits was new York.

If tuition is only $11,000 per year at WashUStL, $10,000 per year at Ohio State & $18,000 at Notre Dame, then you have three solid choices for one targeting the three largest markets in Ohio. Visit, then decide because there is no wrong choice among these options based on your objectives.

I can't speak to law student QoL at WUSTL, but I'm a senior here for undergrad and can talk about the town and things to do and all that, so if you have any questions, feel free to PM.

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Plenty to do in STL. The Central West End is fantastic.

Lvaughn714 wrote:Nd has placed more students in California than any other state Except Illinois. Of a class of 180 29 went to Illinois and 22 to California. The only other state with double digits was new York.

That is kinda misleading because the student who graduates jobless and moves to California would count as being "placed" by ND.

OP: Did you get into any T14s?

simpleAs wrote:I received an additional award from WUSTL after doing the refundable (by May 1) first seat deposit. It's now 32K first year, 43K for second and third years. This would bring my total tuition over 3 years to ~mad skrilla.

I'm thinking: Negotiate ND and otherwise plan a visit to WUSTL. I'm rather unfamiliar with the LS leveraging process; but should I contact OSU with an attempt at full tuition? Is that even plausible?

Did they just send you more money after you deposited? Or did you ask for more?

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simpleAs wrote:I guess my thread has been picked on by a mod Nice work too, I can't edit the original post back.

Anyway, it turns out I misread my new award email- it's 43K a year for three years.
So scholarship is:
WUSTL - 129k
ND - 84k
OSU - 48k

I'm going to contact ND but I'm close to choosing WUSTL for the change of scenery, low tuition, and seemingly equal employment prospects. No T14s: applied SIXIGAN! (ding) and Cornell (no response). Seemed a bit out of reach given my #s and it certainly didn't help to apply mid-January. In hindsight, I may have had a shot with Vandy or UT but at the time I did not project going that far for school nor did I expect that they would be able to bring me back to OH any more than schools like WUSTL and ND could. On the latter point I may have misstepped; but a year off/You should go to law school this cycle. is out of the question.

Yeah go to WUSTL. I'm an ND undergrad too, and I just couldn't imagine being here for 7 years. I think the campus is pretty great for undergrad, but I think being a grad student here would be miserable with the lack of any real city or culture.