Top Law Schools

I am currently choosing between attending Fordham for about 80K total and Cardozo on full scholarship (no stips). I would like the opportunity to work in biglaw but it's not the end game by any means neccessary. I just want to be a practicing lawyer in the NYC/NJ area without doing Doc review or "shitlaw". That being said, I think I would be more interested in more of a corporate/business law type job which sort of lends itself to the biglaw model. Also take in to consideration that there would be no COL for either school and I currently have about 40k of UG debt. Englighten me with the school you would choose and why?

neither of these is likely to net you big law but you prob have about twice the opportunity at Fordham

The bottom line is that if your in the top 10% at Cardozo, you have a very good shot at big law. At Fordham, the cutoff is more like top 20%. If you understand that, then I think the clear answer is Cardozo. If you do well, you will have the job. If you don't, you are not owing another 80K! On the other hand, go to Fordham, and if you don't land the job, your pretty much screwed.

If your going to do well, your going to do well, and if your not, your not.

sjedood wrote:The bottom line is that if your in the top 10% at Cardozo, you have a very good shot at big law. At Fordham, the cutoff is more like top 20%. If you understand that, then I think the clear answer is Cardozo. If you do well, you will have the job. If you don't, you are not owing another 80K! On the other hand, go to Fordham, and if you don't land the job, your pretty much screwed.

If your going to do well, your going to do well, and if your not, your not.

I do understand that the chances for biglaw from either of these schools are not the best. I guess my real question is how to factor in the job opportunites in between big law and bottom of the barrel 30-35k a year type jobs (and yes i have seen the bi-modal salaray distribution).

tebowforpresident wrote:

sjedood wrote:The bottom line is that if your in the top 10% at Cardozo, you have a very good shot at big law. At Fordham, the cutoff is more like top 20%. If you understand that, then I think the clear answer is Cardozo. If you do well, you will have the job. If you don't, you are not owing another 80K! On the other hand, go to Fordham, and if you don't land the job, your pretty much screwed.

If your going to do well, your going to do well, and if your not, your not.

I do understand that the chances for biglaw from either of these schools are not the best. I guess my real question is how to factor in the job opportunites in between big law and bottom of the barrel 30-35k a year type jobs (and yes i have seen the bi-modal salaray distribution).

Unfortunately the jobs you seek, "corporate/business" type jobs, are few and far between. Although there are a few boutique or midlaw firms that do corporate type work, the overwhelming percentage of decent-paying, non-biglaw jobs are going to be in the government or litigation area. And the pickings for entry-level in-house corporate work or consulting/finance are non-existent or will go to people from much higher ranked schools (so if you can't get a biglaw job from Fordham good luck being part of the HP in-house program or going to a consulting firm). Biglaw is basically a prerequiste to transitioning into business with a JD. A lot of successful lawyers have transitioned into business either in legal or non-legal roles- almost all of them did a stint at a biglaw firm (and mostly V10 firms if you want to get more specific).

There are in-between jobs. NY state or city government. Opportunities at firms between 50-100 lawyers. But unfortunately business law (unless you are helping out small businesses as part of a general practice) is almost exclusively the province of biglaw.

tebowforpresident wrote:

sjedood wrote:The bottom line is that if your in the top 10% at Cardozo, you have a very good shot at big law. At Fordham, the cutoff is more like top 20%. If you understand that, then I think the clear answer is Cardozo. If you do well, you will have the job. If you don't, you are not owing another 80K! On the other hand, go to Fordham, and if you don't land the job, your pretty much screwed.

If your going to do well, your going to do well, and if your not, your not.

I do understand that the chances for biglaw from either of these schools are not the best. I guess my real question is how to factor in the job opportunites in between big law and bottom of the barrel 30-35k a year type jobs (and yes i have seen the bi-modal salaray distribution).

Cardozo placed 12.5% in biglaw for 2010
Fordham was about 25%
That means approximately top 15% and top 1/3 respectively will give you a chance at biglaw.
I don't know about Dozo, but Fordham places decently in NY midlaw as well.
About half of grads there will be making $145K+ per year and quite a few more make over 6 figures. Their employment data listed in the admitted student website is quite detailed and you should read it. If Dozo's employment data is expansive enough, you can compare them and make a rational decision as to whether the cost is worth it
(I made my decision, but won't choose for you)

dingbat wrote:I don't know about Dozo, but Fordham places decently in NY midlaw as well.
About half of grads there will be making $145K+ per year and quite a few more make over 6 figures. Their employment data listed in the admitted student website is quite detailed and you should read it. If Dozo's employment data is expansive enough, you can compare them and make a rational decision as to whether the cost is worth it
(I made my decision, but won't choose for you)

lolnoob gtfo

dingbat wrote:

tebowforpresident wrote:

sjedood wrote:The bottom line is that if your in the top 10% at Cardozo, you have a very good shot at big law. At Fordham, the cutoff is more like top 20%. If you understand that, then I think the clear answer is Cardozo. If you do well, you will have the job. If you don't, you are not owing another 80K! On the other hand, go to Fordham, and if you don't land the job, your pretty much screwed.

If your going to do well, your going to do well, and if your not, your not.

I do understand that the chances for biglaw from either of these schools are not the best. I guess my real question is how to factor in the job opportunites in between big law and bottom of the barrel 30-35k a year type jobs (and yes i have seen the bi-modal salaray distribution).

Cardozo placed 12.5% in biglaw for 2010
Fordham was about 25%
That means approximately top 15% and top 1/3 respectively will give you a chance at biglaw.
I don't know about Dozo, but Fordham places decently in NY midlaw as well.
About half of grads there will be making $145K+ per year and quite a few more make over 6 figures. Their employment data listed in the admitted student website is quite detailed and you should read it. If Dozo's employment data is expansive enough, you can compare them and make a rational decision as to whether the cost is worth it
(I made my decision, but won't choose for you)

wut?

dproduct wrote:

dingbat wrote:

tebowforpresident wrote:

sjedood wrote:The bottom line is that if your in the top 10% at Cardozo, you have a very good shot at big law. At Fordham, the cutoff is more like top 20%. If you understand that, then I think the clear answer is Cardozo. If you do well, you will have the job. If you don't, you are not owing another 80K! On the other hand, go to Fordham, and if you don't land the job, your pretty much screwed.

If your going to do well, your going to do well, and if your not, your not.

I do understand that the chances for biglaw from either of these schools are not the best. I guess my real question is how to factor in the job opportunites in between big law and bottom of the barrel 30-35k a year type jobs (and yes i have seen the bi-modal salaray distribution).

Cardozo placed 12.5% in biglaw for 2010
Fordham was about 25%
That means approximately top 15% and top 1/3 respectively will give you a chance at biglaw.
I don't know about Dozo, but Fordham places decently in NY midlaw as well.
About half of grads there will be making $145K+ per year and quite a few more make over 6 figures. Their employment data listed in the admitted student website is quite detailed and you should read it. If Dozo's employment data is expansive enough, you can compare them and make a rational decision as to whether the cost is worth it
(I made my decision, but won't choose for you)

wut?

Generally top 1/3 are able to get interviews at biglaw. About 1/4 of the class gets hired by biglaw (some self select out, some strike out)

Various different sources list about 45% of the class making $145k+
93% of grads report salary data, give or take
Quite a few who don't get those salaries still have six figure jobs (NY pays more than many other markets. Midlaw will pay six figures,
Bottom 1/3 of the class is still fucked, though

tebowforpresident wrote:I am currently choosing between attending Fordham for about 80K total and Cardozo on full scholarship (no stips). I would like the opportunity to work in biglaw but it's not the end game by any means neccessary. I just want to be a practicing lawyer in the NYC/NJ area without doing Doc review or "shitlaw". That being said, I think I would be more interested in more of a corporate/business law type job which sort of lends itself to the biglaw model. Also take in to consideration that there would be no COL for either school and I currently have about 40k of UG debt. Englighten me with the school you would choose and why?

80k isn't a bad amount for Fordham. Did you get into any other schools? Any chance for a retake?

I would choose Fordham. It doubles your chances of biglaw for 80k. The problem is if you go to Cardozo you will likely be looking for another career when you graduate in 3 years.

thexfactor wrote:

tebowforpresident wrote:I am currently choosing between attending Fordham for about 80K total and Cardozo on full scholarship (no stips). I would like the opportunity to work in biglaw but it's not the end game by any means neccessary. I just want to be a practicing lawyer in the NYC/NJ area without doing Doc review or "shitlaw". That being said, I think I would be more interested in more of a corporate/business law type job which sort of lends itself to the biglaw model. Also take in to consideration that there would be no COL for either school and I currently have about 40k of UG debt. Englighten me with the school you would choose and why?

80k isn't a bad amount for Fordham. Did you get into any other schools? Any chance for a retake?

I would choose Fordham. It doubles your chances of biglaw for 80k. The problem is if you go to Cardozo you will likely be looking for another career when you graduate in 3 years.

No chance at a retake. I did get into other schools but i'm set on working in NYC/NJ area. Since I didn't get any T-14's I believe my only real choices for my goals are Fordham or TT on full scholarship. Also have 1 year of WE (albeit in HR at fortune 500 sized company) and am URM.

Is the Cardozo placement really that bad? I really don't see myself falling far below median at absolute worst, even with the arbitrary grading. What types of jobs are median people at Dozo looking for (or am I looking at top third to get a job?) The employment statistics are tough to take credibly when they use percentages of percentages of percentages of the entire class.

At this point I feel like it would be reckless of me to turn down a full ride when my other option isn't a sure thing, but the placement from Cardozo is at least a little bit frightening.

tebowforpresident wrote:

thexfactor wrote:

tebowforpresident wrote:I am currently choosing between attending Fordham for about 80K total and Cardozo on full scholarship (no stips). I would like the opportunity to work in biglaw but it's not the end game by any means neccessary. I just want to be a practicing lawyer in the NYC/NJ area without doing Doc review or "shitlaw". That being said, I think I would be more interested in more of a corporate/business law type job which sort of lends itself to the biglaw model. Also take in to consideration that there would be no COL for either school and I currently have about 40k of UG debt. Englighten me with the school you would choose and why?

80k isn't a bad amount for Fordham. Did you get into any other schools? Any chance for a retake?

I would choose Fordham. It doubles your chances of biglaw for 80k. The problem is if you go to Cardozo you will likely be looking for another career when you graduate in 3 years.

No chance at a retake. I did get into other schools but i'm set on working in NYC/NJ area. Since I didn't get any T-14's I believe my only real choices for my goals are Fordham or TT on full scholarship. Also have 1 year of WE (albeit in HR at fortune 500 sized company) and am URM.

Is the Cardozo placement really that bad? I really don't see myself falling far below median at absolute worst, even with the arbitrary grading. What types of jobs are median people at Dozo looking for (or am I looking at top third to get a job?) The employment statistics are tough to take credibly when they use percentages of percentages of percentages of the entire class.

At this point I feel like it would be reckless of me to turn down a full ride when my other option isn't a sure thing, but the placement from Cardozo is at least a little bit frightening.

You have to be within the top 15-20% to have a shot at a biglaw job from Cardozo. A friend there was top third and failed to even get a single interview at their OCI program.

To be fair, if you're top half at clown college (bozo) you should be able to find a job, albeit not biglaw