Ruby at UChicago v. Harvard v. Columbia Forum

[nametaken]

So after debating this with myself and everyone else I know, I decided to take my situation to TLS since my friends are becoming annoyed with me and will not listen to me without just saying Columbia over and over again (we live in NYC). So here it is:

I am not exactly sure what I want to do after school. I do know I want to be in NYC. I think I would most likely want to spend a few years in big law, pay off my huge amount of undergrad debt, and maybe think about doing something more fulfilling later.

Columbia: was always my dream law school. I'm originally from California, I went to NYU for undergad, live in NYC now, and am not happy about the idea of moving. I love it here and feel like it is home, have great friends, and am not thrilled about the idea of making a big move to a place I know nothing about again. I was offered the Butler Fellowship (half tuition) and am trying to negotiate up. Obviously, I don't think I can choose the Butler over Harvard and the Ruby.

Harvard: I just got my financial aid info and will get a $21,000 per year grant. This means I will still graduate with a lot of debt, but it's Harvard and I know their LRAP program is good/ it shouldn't be an issue if I do Big Law. I loved the campus, but Cambridge is small and I am definitely concerned about that. The grading system is a pro, but I've heard mixed reviews of how social/friendly the law students are, which is a little unsettling.

Chicago: I was recently offered the Rubenstein which shook everything up for me. I have never been to Chicago before, but I'm attending the ASW at the end of the month. I will have a friend living in Hyde Park, which is a plus. However, I've heard mixed reviews about the law school/students ("where fun goes to die") so am wondering if anyone can say anything about this.

NYU: Offered $87,500 or $105,000 if I do public interest my 2L summer.

For now, I think my choice is mainly between Harvard and the Rubenstein. If anyone has any input, I'd love to hear it. TYIA!

[Tadatsune]

Damn.

[flem]

I have nothing to add as your decision is a very personal one, but congratulations.

[t14fanboy]

So after debating this with myself and everyone else I know, I decided to take my situation to TLS since my friends are becoming annoyed with me and will not listen to me without just saying Columbia over and over again (we live in NYC). So here it is:

I am not exactly sure what I want to do after school. I do know I want to be in NYC. I think I would most likely want to spend a few years in big law, pay off my huge amount of undergrad debt, and maybe think about doing something more fulfilling later.

Columbia: was always my dream law school. I'm originally from California, I went to NYU for undergad, live in NYC now, and am not happy about the idea of moving. I love it here and feel like it is home, have great friends, and am not thrilled about the idea of making a big move to a place I know nothing about again. I was offered the Butler Fellowship (half tuition) and am trying to negotiate up. Obviously, I don't think I can choose the Butler over Harvard and the Ruby.

Harvard: I just got my financial aid info and will get a $21,000 per year grant. This means I will still graduate with a lot of debt, but it's Harvard and I know their LRAP program is good/ it shouldn't be an issue if I do Big Law. I loved the campus, but Cambridge is small and I am definitely concerned about that. The grading system is a pro, but I've heard mixed reviews of how social/friendly the law students are, which is a little unsettling.

Chicago: I was recently offered the Rubenstein which shook everything up for me. I have never been to Chicago before, but I'm attending the ASW at the end of the month. I will have a friend living in Hyde Park, which is a plus. However, I've heard mixed reviews about the law school/students ("where fun goes to die") so am wondering if anyone can say anything about this.

NYU: Offered $87,500 or $105,000 if I do public interest my 2L summer.

For now, I think my choice is mainly between Harvard and the Rubenstein. If anyone has any input, I'd love to hear it. TYIA!

Yes but why try to pay off loans when you can go to a baller school for free. Accumulate that wealth man.

[checkster]

Just pick your least favorite and I will take it instead.

[Doorkeeper]

1. As you said, you should negotiate with Columbia to try and get a Hamilton. Do not be afraid to tell them both: a) Columbia is your dream school, and b) Without a better scholarship offer, you cannot attend. You sound really, really whetted to NYC, so if you can get a Hamilton, then I say go to Columbia. Harvard or Chicago isn't worth 3 years of being unhappy relative to your live in NYC. Plus you would graduate debt free and you would still be really well positioned for anything in NYC job-wise.

2. If you can't get the Hamilton, it's then between Harvard and Chicago. This is a tough call and is dependent on your level of debt aversion. If you're ok with 150-175k in debt coming out of Harvard, then go there. But if you're worried about the debt forcing your career options after law school, I would definitely go with Chicago. Pretty much everything attainable from Harvard is attainable from Chicago, including academia, big law, prestigious PI, etc. I mean it has a lower shot at a Supreme Court clerkship, but you shouldn't be making a 150k decision on that. You would graduate debt free and would therefore have no reason to go into biglaw other than you wanting to work in biglaw. It's a really freeing thing to have that might be something to consider.

[nametaken]

Just pick your least favorite and I will take it instead.

Sounds great, help me figure out what to do and I'll send a withdrawal email to the others and let them know you will be taking my place!

[CanadianWolf]

Just to offer a contrarian point of view: You've narrowed your choices to Harvard & Chicago, but you love living in NYC & don't want to move. Negotiate with NYU & Columbia so you can stay where you are comfortable & thriving.

Back to reality: It's Harvard ! Chicago with a full tuition & fees scholarship ! Both offer a chance to grow in a new environment. Do you want a large law school environment or a small school with tiny debt ?

P.S. Stanford or Yale ?

[caminante]

Congrats!! I know this must be a very stressful decision for you, and can be a touchy subject with friends and family with strong opinions.

You obviously can't really go wrong with whatever you pick. However, since you don't really know what you want to do long-term I would lean toward Harvard. I think one of Harvard's biggest benefits is its flexibility in the long run.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more. I am facing a similar decision.

Good luck and congrats again!

[Dany]

With a huge amount of undergrad debt, you should absolutely take the Ruby in my opinion. UChicago can get you back to NYC biglaw easily. You wouldn't be crazy for picking Harvard with $60k though (depending on what you mean by "huge" amount).

[CanadianWolf]

Regardless of your ultimate decision, you should be able to write & publish on the topic of buyer's remorse.

[Tadatsune]

Yes, if you want Columbia use the awards at Chicago and Harvard to get them to offer you a free ride.

[bk1]

With a huge amount of undergrad debt, you should absolutely take the Ruby in my opinion. UChicago can get you back to NYC biglaw easily. You wouldn't be crazy for picking Harvard with $60k though (depending on what you mean by "huge" amount).

Agreed. As much as Harvard opens doors, it would still be a slog to plow through 300k+ debt (which you might easily have after law school depending on how much undergrad debt you have and the interest on it).

[nametaken]

Just to offer a contrarian point of view: You've narrowed your choices to Harvard & Chicago, but you love living in NYC & don't want to move. Negotiate with NYU & Columbia so you can stay where you are comfortable & thriving.

Back to reality: It's Harvard ! Chicago with a full tuition & fees scholarship ! Both offer a chance to grow in a new environment. Do you want a large law school environment or a small school with tiny debt ?

P.S. Stanford or Yale ?

didn't apply to Stanford because I'm not at all interested in living so close to home, and haven't heard a peep from Yale. Thanks for your opinions!

[nametaken]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your opinions! I have ~$100,000 in undergrad debt, so I'm definitely happy to have the Ruby on the table. I am just a little scared of turning down Harvard if I decide down the road that I don't want to stay in BigLaw and the Harvard name could've helped me more in another field than graduating from UChi would.

I'm definitely trying to negotiate with CLS, and thanks for your advice on things to say to them. I wrote them an email with all of my offers and tried to show that I really wanted CLS, so we will see how that goes.

Also, does anyone know if putting the Rubenstein on a resume would give any boost?

[Dany]

I would be way more scared of graduating with $260,000 of debt pre-interest than not having the slight boost H will give you in whatever non-biglaw jobs you're considering.

[tennisking88]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your opinions! I have ~$100,000 in undergrad debt, so I'm definitely happy to have the Ruby on the table. I am just a little scared of turning down Harvard if I decide down the road that I don't want to stay in BigLaw and the Harvard name could've helped me more in another field than graduating from UChi would.

I'm definitely trying to negotiate with CLS, and thanks for your advice on things to say to them. I wrote them an email with all of my offers and tried to show that I really wanted CLS, so we will see how that goes.

Also, does anyone know if putting the Rubenstein on a resume would give any boost?

You would not get much more boost employment-wise from Harvard than you would from Chicago.

[chup]

I am not exactly sure what I want to do after school.

Then don't go to law school, dummy.

[soj]

Work and bring down the UG debt. Defer or re-apply.

[nametaken]

I would be way more scared of graduating with $260,000 of debt pre-interest than not having the slight boost H will give you in whatever non-biglaw jobs you're considering.

You are right, seeing that number written out is definitely terrifying.

[tennisking88]

I am not exactly sure what I want to do after school.

Then don't go to law school, dummy.

This is dumb. Just because you don't know what kind of lawyer you wanna be doesn't mean you don't wanna be a lawyer. Also, I bet a good chunk of people think they know what they wanna do, but do something totally opposite in the end.

[Doorkeeper]

I would be way more scared of graduating with $260,000 of debt pre-interest than not having the slight boost H will give you in whatever non-biglaw jobs you're considering.

Yea. After reading about your $100,000 in UG debt on top of law school, I really think you need to strongly consider taking the Ruby. As others have mentioned, your career prospects in most things law-related are going to be fairly similar from Chicago and Harvard. I agree that Harvard has a leg up in certain things, but I really don't think it's worth having over $200,000 in loans.

[nametaken]

Work and bring down the UG debt. Defer or re-apply.

Haha, I do work - graduated in 3 years to do so. Living in NYC on starting salary = not a smarter option than going to school and starting to make real money.

[nametaken]

I am not exactly sure what I want to do after school.

Then don't go to law school, dummy.

This is dumb. Just because you don't know what kind of lawyer you wanna be doesn't mean you don't wanna be a lawyer. Also, I bet a good chunk of people think they know what they wanna do, but do something totally opposite in the end.

Yeah I just meant that I find a few different career paths (in law) compelling and I'm not set on one. I've wanted to go to law school for a long time and know it's what I want.

[soj]

Man, NYU UG is rough.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can defer the Rubenstein, and next year's supposed to be the last year it's given out.