Top Law Schools

I am originally from Hawaii and it would be my ideal location to work after law school.

WUSTL sounds like a very poor fit for you and your goals. I'm inclined to say Hawaii, since you want to work there and it should be the cheapest. It probably won't travel well outside of Hawaii, but if that's not an issue for your goals, I wouldn't worry about. I've heard that the Hawaii market is pretty insular, but if Hawaii firms do OCI at Hastings and you have those ties to Hawaii, you could probably get back to Hawaii from Hastings. I don't really see any benefit in going to Hastings, but hopefully someone better informed about the Hawaii market can chime in.

Also, you should make a poll.

I wish I knew how Hawaii law firms view grads from Hawaii as opposed to grads from a higher ranked school.

cheergirl wrote:

Samara wrote:WUSTL sounds like a very poor fit for you and your goals. I'm inclined to say Hawaii, since you want to work there and it should be the cheapest. It probably won't travel well outside of Hawaii, but if that's not an issue for your goals, I wouldn't worry about. I've heard that the Hawaii market is pretty insular, but if Hawaii firms do OCI at Hastings and you have those ties to Hawaii, you could probably get back to Hawaii from Hastings. I don't really see any benefit in going to Hastings, but hopefully someone better informed about the Hawaii market can chime in.

Also, you should make a poll.

Thanks so much for responding. I know Wash U is pretty impractical but I guess I just like the idea of a nicer school.

I should also mention that if I do go to Hawaii, I wouldn't have to pay rent (bf pays rent).

To me, Hastings is the middle ground of Hawaii & Wash U. I wish I knew how Hawaii law firms view grads from Hawaii (since it's not ranked very highly) as opposed to grads from a higher ranked school.

TLS has an article on Hawaii, though it's outdated, so only take it as a general outline: http://www.top-law-schools.com/hawaii-r ... n-law.html

According to the article, 85% of Hawaii grads stay in Hawaii. So, I imagine that Hawaii firms view Hawaii grads pretty favorably. Don't let the rankings dictate your decision, especially for the Hawaii market. Take Nebraska for example. Omaha firms will probably view U of Nebraska more favorably than U of Iowa grads, even though Iowa is still midwest and is ranked much higher. (mid-T1 v. bottom T2) Rule of thumb is T14 schools are national, T25 schools are regional, everything below that is local.

If you want to practice in Hawaii, either be from Hawaii and go to the University of Hawaii, or go to a T14, preferably HYS, if you want to get reasonable legal employment.

USC, UCLA, and UW also place well in Hawaii. People who go to UH Law probably stay in Hawaii b/c that's what their employment options are limited to. Another option is to take the highest ranked school yet get into, work in another legal market and lateral back to Hawaii after you have some experience (and less student loans) because the cost of living in Hawaii on top of debt would be hard to manage.

Samara wrote:WUSTL sounds like a very poor fit for you and your goals. I'm inclined to say Hawaii, since you want to work there and it should be the cheapest. It probably won't travel well outside of Hawaii, but if that's not an issue for your goals, I wouldn't worry about. I've heard that the Hawaii market is pretty insular, but if Hawaii firms do OCI at Hastings and you have those ties to Hawaii, you could probably get back to Hawaii from Hastings. I don't really see any benefit in going to Hastings, but hopefully someone better informed about the Hawaii market can chime in.

Also, you should make a poll.

Bolded = classic.

I imagine it's really hard to break into Hawaii unless you're from Hawaii + T14 or from Hawaii + University of Hawaii. Do you want to work and live in Hawaii? I think that's your best option. Better than WUSTL and Hastings.

cheergirl wrote: I wish I knew how Hawaii law firms view grads from Hawaii (since it's not ranked very highly) as opposed to grads from a higher ranked school.

Why don't you email some Hawaii alumni, or other people like the recruiters, at some firms you would eventually like to work for and ask them?

2014jd wrote:

cheergirl wrote: I wish I knew how Hawaii law firms view grads from Hawaii (since it's not ranked very highly) as opposed to grads from a higher ranked school.

Why don't you email some Hawaii alumni, or other people like the recruiters, at some firms you would eventually like to work for and ask them?

It's also worth looking at the associate bios on the websites of bigger Honolulu firms and seeing what schools they went to, especially the most recent grads. My guess would be that U Hawaii is well represented there. Honestly, Hastings isn't good enough to turn down your target market's main feeder school for.

Also, I am jealous of your climate.

No13baby wrote: It's also worth looking at the associate bios on the websites of bigger Honolulu firms and seeing what schools they went to, especially the most recent grads. My guess would be that U Hawaii is well represented there. Honestly, Hastings isn't good enough to turn down your target market's main feeder school for.

Also, I am jealous of your climate.

I've actually dones this and basically the gist of it is top Hawaii grads (summa cum laude) + Harvard + Cali (UCLA, USC, Boalt, Hastings) + randoms (usually older attorneys or ones that speak an asian language)

The general feeling I'm getting:

I'm from Hawaii + I want to live & work in Hawaii + no T14 + I just bought like 5 new bathing suits = go to Hawaii

Thank you all for your advice! It has been really helpful. I was pretty sure that that was going to be the best fit but I just needed some reassurance.

cheergirl wrote:

Samara wrote:WUSTL sounds like a very poor fit for you and your goals. I'm inclined to say Hawaii, since you want to work there and it should be the cheapest. It probably won't travel well outside of Hawaii, but if that's not an issue for your goals, I wouldn't worry about. I've heard that the Hawaii market is pretty insular, but if Hawaii firms do OCI at Hastings and you have those ties to Hawaii, you could probably get back to Hawaii from Hastings. I don't really see any benefit in going to Hastings, but hopefully someone better informed about the Hawaii market can chime in.

Also, you should make a poll.

Thanks so much for responding. I know Wash U is pretty impractical but I guess I just like the idea of a nicer school.

I should also mention that if I do go to Hawaii, I wouldn't have to pay rent (bf pays rent).

To me, Hastings is the middle ground of Hawaii & Wash U. I wish I knew how Hawaii law firms view grads from Hawaii (since it's not ranked very highly) as opposed to grads from a higher ranked school.

I've had phenomenal success just calling people up with this kind of question. If they're busy they'll either tell you to bug off or reschedule, and if they aren't they'll usually be happy to talk as long as you have a good reason for calling.

Also if your parents know any lawyers, have them put you in touch with some people.

I know almost nothing about the Hawaii market, but I know someone here at WUSTL who does. I'll tell him to post ITT and maybe he can provide some insight. I've found that while our school isn't "national" in the way a T10 school is, we are pretty good at getting students back where they came from. Obviously being one of the few people from Hawaii would help too.

Still, Hawaii sounds like your best choice.

I don't know about the hawaii market per se.. but I do know other smaller markets usually operate like this:

Hire from top 10% of local TT/TTT = Hire from top 10-20% Wustl/emory/uiuc WITH TIES (Most go a little deeper for vandy/usc/ucla)
= Hire from Median at lower t14 WITH TIES = almost anything HYSCCN WITH TIES

Hawaii is a really nice place, but I think you would rather have a job and make 100k in say NYC/LA/SF than barely scrap by in hawaii making 20-30k a year. Therefore, I suggest that you retake and try to get into at least usc/ucla. It gives you the best option of taking advantage of general biglaw placement as well as the hawaii market.

1) Hawaii
2) UCLA

From Hawaii, and Hawaiian. For most things (and I think law is no exception), ties are everything. I think going to UH is important because it establishes you as a local, and allows you to network the ties that will get you a job. I can think of a couple law firms off hand that a call from a friend is worth 50000x more than a degree from HYS.

Why would you leave Hawaii?

Smumps wrote:From Hawaii, and Hawaiian. For most things (and I think law is no exception), ties are everything. I think going to UH is important because it establishes you as a local, and allows you to network the ties that will get you a job. I can think of a couple law firms off hand that a call from a friend is worth 50000x more than a degree from HYS.

I think she already established that she is from the area. AKA has ties to hawaii. Short of having a dad who is a managing partner of a firm, she will need to have likely top 20 if not top 10% grades from UH to get a good paying job in hawaii.

UCLA or a better school opens more doors on the mainland as well as keeps the doors of hawaii open. Frankly I don't see why she wouldn't be able to network with lawyers in hawaii. We live in the age of telephones, jets and email. She can network during her winter break and 1L summer.

I don't think the hawaiian area is prob a great deal different than trying to practice law in another secondary city in the midwest.

sunynp wrote:Why would you leave Hawaii?

I actually left for undergrad I have been living in LA for almost a year and now I'm trying to find which school will give me the best shot of making it in the legal market back home

thexfactor wrote:I don't know about the hawaii market per se.. but I do know other smaller markets usually operate like this:

Hire from top 10% of local TT/TTT = Hire from top 10-20% Wustl/emory/uiuc WITH TIES (Most go a little deeper for vandy/usc/ucla)
= Hire from Median at lower t14 WITH TIES = almost anything HYSCCN WITH TIES

Hawaii is a really nice place, but I think you would rather have a job and make 100k in say NYC/LA/SF than barely scrap by in hawaii making 20-30k a year. Therefore, I suggest that you retake and try to get into at least usc/ucla. It gives you the best option of taking advantage of general biglaw placement as well as the hawaii market.

Thank you, but honestly I'm not looking for biglaw in a big city. I have no ties to NYC and, from by experience so far, LA is awful. However, I wouldn't mind sticking it out here for 3 more years IF that will give me a better chance in Hawaii (same goes for SF minus the awful part). As for living in Hawaii, I wouldn't mind starting @ 50k-70k @ a small/medium firm if it means I could get a more relaxed lifestyle (which, from experience, it is ).

cheergirl wrote:

sunynp wrote:Why would you leave Hawaii?

I actually left for undergrad I have been living in LA for almost a year and now I'm trying to find which school will give me the best shot of making it in the legal market back home

thexfactor wrote:I don't know about the hawaii market per se.. but I do know other smaller markets usually operate like this:

Hire from top 10% of local TT/TTT = Hire from top 10-20% Wustl/emory/uiuc WITH TIES (Most go a little deeper for vandy/usc/ucla)
= Hire from Median at lower t14 WITH TIES = almost anything HYSCCN WITH TIES

Hawaii is a really nice place, but I think you would rather have a job and make 100k in say NYC/LA/SF than barely scrap by in hawaii making 20-30k a year. Therefore, I suggest that you retake and try to get into at least usc/ucla. It gives you the best option of taking advantage of general biglaw placement as well as the hawaii market.

Thank you, but honestly I'm not looking for biglaw in a big city. I have no ties to NYC and, from by experience so far, LA is awful. However, I wouldn't mind sticking it out here for 3 more years IF that will give me a better chance in Hawaii (same goes for SF minus the awful part). As for living in Hawaii, I wouldn't mind starting @ 50k-70k @ a small/medium firm if it means I could get a more relaxed lifestyle (which, from experience, it is ).

Maybe the best option for you is to travel the country a little bit to determine whether or not you are willing to live in NY or SF. The good part is that you def don't need ties for NY. The problem is that law is generally a bimodal profession. There are a lot of people starting at 30k and a decent amount of people starting at 100k. Very hard to find jobs that are 70k. Furthemore, the firms that do pay 70k typically have very small summer classes or no summer classes and hiring can be unpredictable at best.

Maybe you need to re-evaluate? Going to Hawaii for law school likely means that if you are not in the top 10-15% you will not get a decent paying job. You will probably get a job that pays more like 30k. There are a lot of lawyers trying to scrap by in the us.

I think UCB should be a good choice for you. UCB gives you a chance at the SF and NY market while it preserves your opportunities in Hawaii.

Just got financial aid from UW and it's $25,000/yr so I guess I'll throw that in the mix, if that counts for anything.

Hawaii or the University of Washington.

To me, it's obvious that Hawaii is the best choice if you want to live & work in Hawaii after law school. If you need a break from paradise & want to experience another outstanding location, then consider the joint degree Hawaii/Canadian program in British Columbia. (Can't recall if it's with UBC or Victoria). Although Seattle has a lot to offer in contrast to the Hawaiin climate.

U Hawaii is the correct choice for your goals.

I just called Hawaii to get more of an exact price of how much my tuition would be.

cheergirl wrote:I just called Hawaii to get more of an exact price of how much my tuition would be with my tuition waiver and what little financial aid they have given me.

It comes out to about $3712 per year. I also don't have to pay for housing.

I think I've made up my mind.

Nice! Good luck with law school!