Top Law Schools

Southwestern
con: Job prospects, debt loads
pro: Transfer opportunity, regional ties(home town did undergraduate)

Texas Tech:
con: Job prospects, almost no transfer opportunity, no ties
pro: in state tuition, low COA which would save me about $50,000 relative to Southwestern.

Ultimate question is:
Should I just save about $50,000 and lose regional ties and transfer opportunities or spend some more and keep the transfer option and regional ties?

Neither? Well, that's one option but for the sake of the poll, let's just keep between those two school. Thank you

Texas Tech with no ties? Southwestern?

You'd have to be baked to consider either of these. Texas Tech with in-state tuition for people who grew up in West Texas is actually an OK option as TTTs go. With no ties, you'll be in the back of the line in a small market with a so-so law degree. (This is bad.) Southwestern is a categorically bad choice for anyone who is a human.

Retake or don't go.

SBL wrote:Southwestern is a categorically bad choice for anyone who is a human.

Seriously, if you must choose, which one would you choose?

tigger22 wrote:

SBL wrote:Southwestern is a categorically bad choice for anyone who is a human.

Seriously, if you must choose, which one would you choose?

I'm serious, there is no "must choose." You're literally better off without a JD than paying for either of those schools. Don't do this to yourself.

tigger22 wrote:Southwestern
con: Job prospects, debt loads
pro: Transfer opportunity, regional ties(home town did undergraduate)

Texas Tech:
con: Job prospects, almost no transfer opportunity, no ties
pro: in state tuition, low COA which would save me about $50,000 relative to Southwestern.

Ultimate question is:
Should I just save about $50,000 and lose regional ties and transfer opportunities or spend some more and keep the transfer option and regional ties?

Neither? Well, that's one option but for the sake of the poll, let's just keep between those two school. Thank you

If you don't want to work in Texas (or possibly New Mexico) I wouldn't go to Texas Tech. Then again, I just spoke with two 3L's: one has a job in PA, and the other in FL, so this isn't an absolute.

I won't speak to Southwestern, but for Texas Tech, the job prospects are a pro, not a con (unless, for you, job prospects=big law). And, I don't understand listing "transfer opportunity" as a pro or a con. If you don't think you want to graduate from a specific school, you shouldn't attend. That said, in the past, some students in approximately the top 15% have transferred "up." Nevertheless, most students in the top of the class don't ever consider transferring.

texas man wrote: If you don't want to work in Texas (or possibly New Mexico) I wouldn't go to Texas Tech. Then again, I just spoke with two 3L's: one has a job in PA, and the other in FL, so this isn't an absolute.

I won't speak to Southwestern, but for Texas Tech, the job prospects are a pro, not a con (unless, for you, job prospects=big law). And, I don't understand listing "transfer opportunity" as a pro or a con. If you don't think you want to graduate from a specific school, you shouldn't attend. That said, in the past, some students in approximately the top 15% have transferred "up." Nevertheless, most students in the top of the class don't ever consider transferring.

Maybe, the job prospects relative to Southwestern are good, but I am not so sure about the absolute stand point.

It is not that I don't want to graduate from a specific school, but rather I want to go to a better school not just for the sake of name, but it would open a lot more opportunities. Statistics show that only 3~4 transfer out from Tech, and that is understandable since UT is out of the option, and probably there aren't many advantages of transferring to any other Texas school, unless, of course, you want to practice in Dallas or Houston, etc.

.

Okay, the poll is dominantly swaying toward TTU, which isn't much of a surprise because it honestly is the better TTT.
However, because you have no ties in Texas, that poll and this thread shouldn't fully reassure you.
You do not want to live three years at a place you're going to be (arguably) miserable in.
Then, have to stay there post graduation because your school is strongly regional.
So, if you're not fully confident in placing your bets on TTU, retake.

tigger22 wrote:

texas man wrote: If you don't want to work in Texas (or possibly New Mexico) I wouldn't go to Texas Tech. Then again, I just spoke with two 3L's: one has a job in PA, and the other in FL, so this isn't an absolute.

I won't speak to Southwestern, but for Texas Tech, the job prospects are a pro, not a con (unless, for you, job prospects=big law). And, I don't understand listing "transfer opportunity" as a pro or a con. If you don't think you want to graduate from a specific school, you shouldn't attend. That said, in the past, some students in approximately the top 15% have transferred "up." Nevertheless, most students in the top of the class don't ever consider transferring.

Maybe, the job prospects relative to Southwestern are good, but I am not so sure about the absolute stand point.

It is not that I don't want to graduate from a specific school, but rather I want to go to a better school not just for the sake of name, but it would open a lot more opportunities. Statistics show that only 3~4 transfer out from Tech, and that is understandable since UT is out of the option, and probably there aren't many advantages of transferring to any other Texas school, unless, of course, you want to practice in Dallas or Houston, etc.

I am not familiar with Southwestern or the market it serves; I can only speak to Texas Tech and the Texas markets.

While I think it's not smart to go to Tech if you plan on working outside of Texas (e.g., DC, NY, CA), many grads do work outside of Texas. From the Class of 2010, approximately 15% ended up outside of Texas, so the idea that you will stay in Texas if you go to Tech is clearly not an absolute. Still, I suggest that anyone considering law school also consider the area or market you'd like to work--this should really guide the decision. Outside of the "national" schools, the markets law schools primarily serve are regional.

I don't know how you define "better school"--does this come from what you perceive as "opportunities"? I think of opportunities as job prospects. If you are looking at transferring as an opportunity or creating opportunities, I think you are making a strategic mistake. When you go to a law school, it's a bad idea to go with the intent of transferring; for many, taking this route has led to a disappointing three years, and consequently, fewer opportunities (this has been discussed extensively in other threads). And, the job prospects coming from Tech are very good (once again, unless, for you, job prospects=big law).

Also, I think some of the assumptions you are making with respect to Texas Tech and transferring are mistaken. Students have transferred to all the higher ranked Texas schools from Tech, including UT; however, for UT, you probably need to be in the top 5%, or around the top 10 students. Also, the primary reason so few students transfer is not because they can't, but because they actually really like Tech Law, and because of the opportunities they have (if they have done well). As I said in the Tulsa v. Texas Tech post, "most people in the position to transfer don't seriously think about it because they are at the top of their class (top 10-15%), there's a good chance they're on law review or a journal, and maybe they've taken an interest in the advocacy program, clinics, etc.; if they transfer, there's a good chance they will give these advantages up. After you've planted your feet somewhere (law school!) for a year and been very successful, it's a tough choice to pick everything up and establish yourself again." Believe it or not, for many, staying at Tech after a very successful first year is looked at as more advantageous than transferring to any other Texas school, including UT. Hence, you are correct that "probably there aren't many advantages of transferring to any other Texas school"; however, at this point (after a very successful first year), I don't think you necessarily get an advantage in the Dallas or Houston markets by transferring. If you really want to work in Dallas or Houston, it's best to plant your feet there from the start (even so, Tech grads are networked in both markets).

My point is not to convince you to go to Tech Law; it might be the wrong choice for you. My point is to clear up any misconceptions you might have about opportunities coming from Tech and about transferring in general. I hope I didn't misunderstand any of your concerns.

I would recommend farming. I'm not kidding and I'm not being elitist. I have worked on a farm, and the job prospects and the income are preferable.

This question is pretty much:

Unemployment in high COL area or Work as a Landman for an Oil Company in the middle of nowhere

I know what I'd choose.

BeenDidThat wrote:This question is pretty much:

Unemployment in high COL area or Work as a Landman for an Oil Company in the middle of nowhere

I know what I'd choose.

Wut

tigger22 wrote:

SBL wrote:Southwestern is a categorically bad choice for anyone who is a human.

Seriously, if you must choose, which one would you choose?

Neither.

And don't say, "What if there was a gun to your head?" I'd take the bullet.

wait. how do you have in-state tuition without having ties? are you sure you don't have ties?

Gail wrote:wait. how do you have in-state tuition without having ties? are you sure you don't have ties?

With $1000 or more scholly, they waive the out of state fees.

romothesavior wrote:
And don't say, "What if there was a gun to your head?" I'd take the bullet.

Well, yeah. That's the situation where I'm in right now.

do some TTU grads end up working in dallas or houston, sure. but with no ties to the area and no family connections to help you get a job, you will have to kill it to get those opportunities

thisiswater wrote: do some TTU grads end up working in dallas or houston, sure. but with no ties to the area and no family connections to help you get a job, you will have to kill it to get those opportunities

Just this. Only this. For any opportunities at all. Do not do this to yourself.

lisjjen wrote:

thisiswater wrote: do some TTU grads end up working in dallas or houston, sure. but with no ties to the area and no family connections to help you get a job, you will have to kill it to get those opportunities

Just this. Only this. For any opportunities at all. Do not do this to yourself.

a lot of well-connected dallas kids without the grades for even SMU head out to TTU and make it out okay but they are well-connected which this poster is not.

I just don't see how these degrees add value. With a BA and a little hustle, you can probably find yourself making about $50,000 without too much trouble. $50,000 is about what you're going to make with a JD from Southwestern or TTU. So why borrow $100,000 or more for no improvement in salary? Is being any kind of lawyer at all that worth it to you?

thisiswater wrote:

lisjjen wrote:

thisiswater wrote: do some TTU grads end up working in dallas or houston, sure. but with no ties to the area and no family connections to help you get a job, you will have to kill it to get those opportunities

Just this. Only this. For any opportunities at all. Do not do this to yourself.

a lot of well-connected dallas kids without the grades for even SMU head out to TTU and make it out okay but they are well-connected which this poster is not.

This isn't accurate, unless by ties you mean the alumni network. The Tech alumni network is very strong in Dallas and Fort Worth. While not as strong in Houston, the network is there; several of my classmates (including myself) will be working in Houston this upcoming summer.

If you are in the bottom of your class or you perform poorly in interviews, you will have to kill to get those jobs; however, the opportunities are there.

SBL wrote:I just don't see how these degrees add value. With a BA and a little hustle, you can probably find yourself making about $50,000 without too much trouble. $50,000 is about what you're going to make with a JD from Southwestern or TTU. So why borrow $100,000 or more for no improvement in salary? Is being any kind of lawyer at all that worth it to you?

find a job making 50 k/ year without too much trouble???????????? what country are you living in?

in2win wrote:

SBL wrote:I just don't see how these degrees add value. With a BA and a little hustle, you can probably find yourself making about $50,000 without too much trouble. $50,000 is about what you're going to make with a JD from Southwestern or TTU. So why borrow $100,000 or more for no improvement in salary? Is being any kind of lawyer at all that worth it to you?

find a job making 50 k/ year without too much trouble???????????? what country are you living in?

SBL, ITE those jobs just don't exist anymore. I was extremely fortunate to get one, but almost everyone else I know is either unemployed, part time, or making far less than 50k.

What we're saying: "Not even once"

What you're hearing: "I'm sure I can get away doing meth a couple of times"

InGoodFaith wrote: SBL, ITE those jobs just don't exist anymore. I was extremely fortunate to get one, but almost everyone else I know is either unemployed, part time, or making far less than 50k.

Excuse moi for being ignorant, but what's SBL, ITE?

SBL wrote:I just don't see how these degrees add value. With a BA and a little hustle, you can probably find yourself making about $50,000 without too much trouble. $50,000 is about what you're going to make with a JD from Southwestern or TTU. So why borrow $100,000 or more for no improvement in salary? Is being any kind of lawyer at all that worth it to you?

Touché! I'm not a recent graduate, so 50k is not too far to reach, however, California or US, in general, is having difficult time, so it may not be that easy.

Why I want to do it? Well, because of the reason above and with a JD degree, after a while, I can practice my own, and if I do well, I can hire some lawyers, and I can work as long as I am able to. Is this opportunity worth more than 100k?
If the thing is guaranteed, then yes, at least for me, but it is not guaranteed right? I may even struggle paying off the student loans. So I am pulling my hair.

InGoodFaith wrote:

in2win wrote:

SBL wrote:I just don't see how these degrees add value. With a BA and a little hustle, you can probably find yourself making about $50,000 without too much trouble. $50,000 is about what you're going to make with a JD from Southwestern or TTU. So why borrow $100,000 or more for no improvement in salary? Is being any kind of lawyer at all that worth it to you?

find a job making 50 k/ year without too much trouble???????????? what country are you living in?

SBL, ITE those jobs just don't exist anymore. I was extremely fortunate to get one, but almost everyone else I know is either unemployed, part time, or making far less than 50k.

I think this depends on your market. In big (high-COL) citites like SF or NYC, I'd wager $50,000 isn't too out of reach, especially for someone with a degree other than some general useless humanities major (like my generally useless history degree). Might have to work for a few years to get there, but I don't think 50K is too out of reach for most people.

But let's say I'm off by about 25% and OP's current options pay around $40,000. That's still a heck of a lot better than a $50,000 salary and $100,000+ in interest-accruing debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy. By all means quibble over the figures, since I'm basically making them up, but the point stands that a JD from Southwestern or TTU is very unlikely to add value.