Top Law Schools

At this point, it looks like I will be choosing between Toronto, Duke, and Michigan. I may have other options, but I'll deal with that if it happens (check http://lawschoolnumbers.com/sach1282).

First off, take the debt figures at face value. I have financial help and those are the final numbers.
There is also the possibility that something might come through and lower all these debt figures by ~20k.

So here's some info about me:
1) I do not want biglaw. The hours are insane, I want nothing to do with it.
2) I want a clerkship. I know I'll have to have top grades to do this, but I want to clerk more than anything else.
3) My hometown is a small city with an average legal market (Buffalo, NY)
4) Academia is attractive, though I know chances are slim.

Here's what I have thought of so far for pros and cons:

Toronto:
+Access to a much healthier Canadian legal market and culture (including lower billable expectations, free heath care, and lower taxes)
+I am completely in love with the city
+Can practice in NY, MA and CA, as well as Canada
-Lower salary (~95k is market)
-Relatively large debt compared to the salary, due to the fact I am ineligible for financial aid as an international applicant

Michigan:
+Summer Start - the social situation, earlier start date, as well as the ability to choose electives earlier is very enticing
+Lowest debt of all 3
+Fantastic LRAP
+Mini-seminars
+The ability to represent clients in court as part of clinicals after just 1L
-Nothing significant

Duke:
+MA in Philosophy in just 3 years + summer start!
+The aforementioned summer start (same reasons as Michigan)
+Prefer NC weather
-Higher debt load due to the joint degree

Michigan, due to the decreased debt and slightly higher (but still quite small) shot at academia/clerkships.

Duke if you want to turn the M.Phil into a PhD at Duke. A JD/PhD applicant is much more attractive in the legal academia market right now than just a JD.

Otherwise, Michigan. It's the better school, has better clerkship #s (to my knowledge), and has better faculty.

I don't understand this:

sach1282 wrote:Toronto:
-Lower salary (~95k is market)
-Relatively large debt compared to the salary, due to the fact I am ineligible for financial aid as an international applicant

You don't want biglaw, so it's not like you're going to get a 6 figure salary anywhere. If you are not okay with US law firm hours, but are okay with Canadian law firm hours, I think you should go to Toronto. It seems like you want to make a decent salary but not work above average hours.

@bk187:
You're about right with your hours observation. Based on NALP data, billable expectations at market paying Canadian firms can be as low as 1400, with an average of around 1600-1700.

@Doorkeeper & No13baby:
I am considering continuing to a PhD, but want to see how much I like the MA first.
Also, based on the data here http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150004, Duke actually has a higher A3% than Michigan (11.45% average vs 12.35% average).

Edit: Also just found this http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s-rankings
Duke, again, has a higher A3% than Michigan.

I'm in a similar situation - I'm trying to decide between a T10 U.S. school (UPenn, NYU) and a Canadian school (would probably be U of T, but I'd have to wait another year as I applied to no Canadian schools this cycle). I would prefer to practice in the U.S., but the state of the economy scares me, as does my status as a non-citizen. Any advice would be much appreciated!

I couldn't tell you anything about the Canadian legal market, but that seems to be the good choice unless chances of gainful employment at Toronto are not comparable to your US options.

sach1282 wrote:@bk187:
You're about right with your hours observation. Based on NALP data, billable expectations at market paying Canadian firms can be as low as 1400, with an average of around 1600-1700.

Wow. I wonder why more Americans don't try for Canadian firms.

Perdevise wrote: Wow. I wonder why more Americans don't try for Canadian firms.

Because Canada is extremely restrictive about allowing foreign attorneys to practice in Canada.

sach1282 wrote:

Perdevise wrote: Wow. I wonder why more Americans don't try for Canadian firms.

Because Canada is extremely restrictive about allowing foreign attorneys to practice in Canada.

Unless they have a Canadian degree, right?

Yeah, that's what I meant. I should have said "foreign educated".