UVa (full-tuition scholarship) vs. Columbia (sticker) Forum

[sfreuden]

I got into Columbia yesterday, which I'm very excited about. However, I now have a decision to make. Virginia offered me a full-tuition scholarship, and I have to give the first seat deposit 04/06. Columbia has not offered any merit scholarship, and I am not holding my breath for significant financial aid. I might not even get my Columbia financial aid packet back before the Virginia deadline.

I'm going straight through from undergrad, no undergraduate debt, and I think I would like to practice in NYC after graduation (though I can be flexible, if necessary).

What does everyone think? Is the extra 180K+ (tuition + COL difference) of debt worth it to go to Columbia over UVa? Are the job prospects that different?

Thanks. I appreciate any help.

[CanadianWolf]

Virginia, unless you are certain that you want to practice in NYC. If NYC is you target market, then contact Columbia admissions & ask for an estimate of your financial aid and/or scholarship award before deciding. With an LSAT score of 180 & a 3.7 GPA, Columbia should be willing to offer an aid assessment.

[Nelson]

I got into Columbia yesterday, which I'm very excited about. However, I now have a decision to make. Virginia offered me a full-tuition scholarship, and I have to give the first seat deposit 04/06. Columbia has not offered any merit scholarship, and I am not holding my breath for significant financial aid. I might not even get my Columbia financial aid packet back before the Virginia deadline.

I'm going straight through from undergrad, no undergraduate debt, and I think I would like to practice in NYC after graduation (though I can be flexible, if necessary).

What does everyone think? Is the extra 180K+ (tuition + COL difference) of debt worth it to go to Columbia over UVa? Are the job prospects that different?

Thanks. I appreciate any help.

You need to wait until you get all of your financial aid offers. If your profile numbers are accurate, you should see at least some money from CCN.

[Doorkeeper]

I would rush submitting your financial materials to Columbia and inform them of your 4/6 deadline. Hopefully they would be able to get you your aid package before then. I think this discussion should happen after that occurs. If Columbia gives you 15k then this is a different story.

Also, Columbia either way if you want NYC or DC biglaw.

[sfreuden]

Thanks for all the quick responses. I really appreciate it.

My parents are getting their tax information together for me, and I should be able to fill out the FAFSA and Need Access by next week. Once I submit the info I will probably send Columbia an e-mail detailing my situation and the need for a rough aid estimate by at least the end of March.

Also, does Columbia give merit grants after initial offers of acceptance? My stats are 3.71/180, and I was hoping for at least a small grant from them. Will they care if I try to leverage with the Virginia scholarship?

[Nelson]

Thanks for all the quick responses. I really appreciate it.

My parents are getting their tax information together for me, and I should be able to fill out the FAFSA and Need Access by next week. Once I submit the info I will probably send Columbia an e-mail detailing my situation and the need for a rough aid estimate by at least the end of March.

Also, does Columbia give merit grants after initial offers of acceptance? My stats are 3.71/180, and I was hoping for at least a small grant from them. Will they care if I try to leverage with the Virginia scholarship?

They usually give up to 15k/yr as non-Hamilton/Butler. Awards come out in March so you will have time to negotiate before UVA's deposit deadline. I would definitely leverage the UVA scholly but don't expect much.

The rational choice from a risk/reward standpoint is UVA. But I would probably pay 100k for the privilege of not living in Charlottesville and access to networking in NYC.

ETA: You are a strong contender for Harvard as well, though K-JD hurts you a little.

[Cavalier]

Graduating from any T14 school with no debt will open many more doors than graduating from Columbia with tons of debt.

[sfreuden]

They usually give up to 15k/yr as non-Hamilton/Butler. Awards come out in March so you will have time to negotiate before UVA's deposit deadline. I would definitely leverage the UVA scholly but don't expect much.

The rational choice from a risk/reward standpoint is UVA. But I would probably pay 100k for the privilege of not living in Charlottesville and access to networking in NYC.

ETA: You are a strong contender for Harvard as well, though K-JD hurts you a little.

Okay, thanks for the info. I'll keep my options open, but I'm not holding my breath. And yes, I agree that UVa is probably the rational choice - especially because the difference is likely closer to 200k than 100k.

Also, I was Held at Harvard in January, and I still haven't heard back from Yale (but absolutely no expectations there).

[Bronck]

I got into Columbia yesterday, which I'm very excited about. However, I now have a decision to make. Virginia offered me a full-tuition scholarship, and I have to give the first seat deposit 04/06. Columbia has not offered any merit scholarship, and I am not holding my breath for significant financial aid. I might not even get my Columbia financial aid packet back before the Virginia deadline.

I'm going straight through from undergrad, no undergraduate debt, and I think I would like to practice in NYC after graduation (though I can be flexible, if necessary).

What does everyone think? Is the extra 180K+ (tuition + COL difference) of debt worth it to go to Columbia over UVa? Are the job prospects that different?

Thanks. I appreciate any help.

You need to wait until you get all of your financial aid offers. If your profile numbers are accurate, you should see at least some money from CCN.

+1

[Curious1]

Graduating from any T14 school with no debt will open many more doors than graduating from Columbia with tons of debt.

I think you mean that graduating with no debt will make many pre-existing opportunities feasible, not create those opportunities.

To everyone else, is NYC inaccessible outside of HYS/Northeastern T14s? I wouldn't expect something like Boalt to place well in NYC, but I've always thought UVA sends lots of its graduates to NYC, at least partly because that market is so big.

[sfreuden]

Graduating from any T14 school with no debt will open many more doors than graduating from Columbia with tons of debt.

I think you mean that graduating with no debt will make many pre-existing opportunities feasible, not create those opportunities.

To everyone else, is NYC inaccessible outside of HYS/Northeastern T14s? I wouldn't expect something like Boalt to place well in NYC, but I've always thought UVA sends lots of its graduates to NYC, at least partly because that market is so big.

About 20% of 2011 UVa graduates with jobs at private firms went to NYC.

[justicefishy]

I'd go with the full ride to UVA. No debt is great and means you can take any job you want post law school without having to worry. Columbia has slightly better choices but UVA places great in NYC and has great clerkship potential (and does well in PI too).

[005618502]

Dude UVA for free would be pretty damn sweet. Unless you get into HYS I would take UVA and run

[Stanford4Me]

UVA.

See if you can negotiate with Columbia. If not, UVA.

[dissonance1848]

UVA full ride and no acceptances to HYS? Simply doesn't compute. Calling flame. Check out LSN, there are people with your numbers who are in.

[Ozymandias]

UVA absolutely (as far as the thread title is concerned.) If you get good money from CLS - which seems unlikely because they appear to be pretty stingy with scholarships outside of Butlers/Hamiltons - then consider it, but I would take UVA in a heartbeat and never look back.

[Ozymandias]

UVA full ride and no acceptances to HYS? Simply doesn't compute. Calling flame. Check out LSN, there are people with your numbers who are in.

Many people get MVP full rides but no HYS acceptances.

[timbs4339]

I received 75K from CLS in 2009 with a 175, 3.8. So more might be possible for you. However, barring a full tuition scholly from CLS, UVA all the way.

[UtilityMonster]

Columbia. It is just that much better. No, what I mean to say is, UVA is just that much worse.

[lessthanjake]

I currently have a really similar issue. I got accepted by Columbia, and I assume they won't give me money (either merit or financial). I also got accepted to UVA with a 105k scholarship. Between that and in-state tuition, there's only 9k a year in tuition left. I notice most people are saying UVA in this thread. Does the fact that I didn't quite get a full ride scholarship change that? I essentially will pay 27k more than the OP.

Also, for those who think UVA + a lot of money > Columbia, I also have yet to hear from Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. I think an acceptance to Yale cannot be turned down, but would Harvard/Stanford be worth it over UVA with 105k (I expect to not get into any of HYS, but it is, of course, a possibility worth wondering about)? My initial instinct is yes those schools are worth it, but it becomes slightly difficult to justify when I think about it really rationally. The most likely outcome for someone coming from Harvard/Stanford is to get a 160k BigLaw job. The most likely outcome for someone coming from UVA is to get a 160k BigLaw job. If I am likely to get a similar job coming from UVA, am I not logically better off taking the money and being able to do BigLaw without any debt (ie. be able to save up a ton of money)?

[Bronck]

I currently have a really similar issue. I got accepted by Columbia, and I assume they won't give me money (either merit or financial). I also got accepted to UVA with a 105k scholarship. Between that and in-state tuition, there's only 9k a year in tuition left. I notice most people are saying UVA in this thread. Does the fact that I didn't quite get a full ride scholarship change that? I essentially will pay 27k more than the OP.

Also, for those who think UVA + a lot of money > Columbia, I also have yet to hear from Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. I think an acceptance to Yale cannot be turned down, but would Harvard/Stanford be worth it over UVA with 105k (I expect to not get into any of HYS, but it is, of course, a possibility worth wondering about)? My initial instinct is yes those schools are worth it, but it becomes slightly difficult to justify when I think about it really rationally. The most likely outcome for someone coming from Harvard/Stanford is to get a 160k BigLaw job. The most likely outcome for someone coming from UVA is to get a 160k BigLaw job. If I am likely to get a similar job coming from UVA, am I not logically better off taking the money and being able to do BigLaw without any debt (ie. be able to save up a ton of money)?

Yes, I would take YHS over 105k UVA in a heartbeat (especially because I'd likely be eligible for need aid). HS also open other doors, like clerkships, better placement into more prestigious firms, academia, etc. Moreover, I wouldn't feel very comfortable landing biglaw at median at UVA. From all the data, it looks like you'd have to do a bit of hustling, especially if you didn't have any meaningful prior work experience.

Plus, you wouldn't have to live in C-ville for 3 years.

[spleenworship]

UVa unless HYS.

[Rotor]

I wouldn't expect something like Boalt to place well in NYC

I'll tell this to all my friends who are working at V10 firms in NY. No we don't have the numbers of other schools there. Blame self-select to Calif. Blame self-select to public interest. Blame a smallish class size. But don't blame an inability for Boalt degree to travel. In some respects, I think that a being a Boaltie willing to go back east makes you stand out over the scads of closer situated T14 schools.

[EdgarWinter]

.

[handsonthewheel]

I wouldn't expect something like Boalt to place well in NYC

I'll tell this to all my friends who are working at V10 firms in NY. No we don't have the numbers of other schools there. Blame self-select to Calif. Blame self-select to public interest. Blame a smallish class size. But don't blame an inability for Boalt degree to travel. In some respects, I think that a being a Boaltie willing to go back east makes you stand out over the scads of closer situated T14 schools.

It's not Boalt anymore, it's Berkeley Law.

Also, if you want to go east, don't go to Berkeley, just as if you want to be West don't go to Penn. In both situations you can probably get a job on either coast, depending on grades and interviews, but the chances are much higher if you attend a school in the area.