Which School? Forum

[itoito]

I am pretty sure my cycle is over (still haven't heard from a few safety schools, and Yale), here are best ranked the schools I got in so far:

Columbia
NYU
Duke
Cornell
University of Toronto
UT Austin

If debt isn't a problem, and I just want to go for academia which one is the best choice? Is the normal route to academia, JD-->LLM-->SJD?

Thanks for the help!

[Doorkeeper]

In the US, there isn't a "normal route" for legal academia anymore. There is a combination of 4 routes:
(1) JD -> Clerkship #1 -> Supreme Court clerkship -> Academia
(2) JD -> Clerkship #1 -> Fellowship -> Academia
(3) JD -> PhD -> Academia
(4) JD -> Practice and become a badass -> Academia

Considering your choices, I would go to Columbia unless you get a significant scholarship from NYU, such as the ILJ or Furman. If you don't want to practice or get a PhD, you need to best position yourself for a Circuit clerkship from your JD, and Columbia is going to do that.

What are your areas of academic interest? This might also change the calculation. But overall, I would not choose any school other than Columbia or NYU unless you get a named scholarship and/or faculty connections.

[itoito]

There isn't a "normal route" for legal academia anymore. There is a combination of 3 routes:
(1) JD -> Clerkship #1 -> Supreme Court clerkship -> Academia
(2) JD -> Clerkship #1 -> Fellowship -> Academia
(3) JD -> PhD -> Academia

Considering your choices, I would go to Columbia unless you get a significant scholarship from NYU, such as the ILJ or Furman. You need to best position yourself for a Circuit clerkship from your JD, and Columbia is going to do that.

What are your areas of academic interest? This might also change the calculation. But overall, I would not choose any school other than Columbia or NYU unless you get a named scholarship and/or faculty connections.

Thanks for the quick reply!

My interest is in Intellectual Property (My undergrad was in one of the sciences), and International Law (Specifically East Asia). The weird thing about my cycle is pretty much I got no money so far (relatively insignificant scholarship at UT Austin and that's it), and due to my parental income I probably won't get any aid-based money either.

[Doorkeeper]

Thanks for the quick reply!

My interest is in Intellectual Property (My undergrad was in one of the sciences), and International Law (Specifically East Asia). The weird thing about my cycle is pretty much I got no money so far (relatively insignificant scholarship at UT Austin and that's it), and due to my parental income I probably won't get any aid-based money either.

Definitely Columbia, pending a substantial merit scholarship from NYU (if you applied to them at all). Columbia has a very good IP faculty (Edgar, Ginsburg, Mann, Wu, etc) and it's the best school you got into.

[itoito]

Thanks for the quick reply!

My interest is in Intellectual Property (My undergrad was in one of the sciences), and International Law (Specifically East Asia). The weird thing about my cycle is pretty much I got no money so far (relatively insignificant scholarship at UT Austin and that's it), and due to my parental income I probably won't get any aid-based money either.

Definitely Columbia, pending a substantial merit scholarship from NYU (if you applied to them at all). Columbia has a very good IP faculty (Edgar, Ginsburg, Mann, Wu, etc) and it's the best school you got into.

Cool! I definitely have read Professor Wu's work before.

I have a question regarding NYC, how commutable is from Hoboken to say Columbia or NYU? Is it a good idea? I can live with my folks and eat real food.

Thanks!

[sach1282]

Wow, someone else who actually applied to Toronto! Just wanted to say hi.

I agree with Doorkeeper though, if debt isn't a problem, go Columbia.

[itoito]

Wow, someone else who actually applied to Toronto! Just wanted to say hi.

I am originally from Canada! It is definitely an awesome city to live and work hopefully you will get in too!

[Grizz]

Do you want to work for a firm? Would you be happy working for a firm? No one should plan on legal academia ex ante. The route just has too many places where you could mess it up.

[sach1282]

Wow, someone else who actually applied to Toronto! Just wanted to say hi.

I am originally from Canada! It is definitely an awesome city to live and work hopefully you will get in too!

I'm already in, waiting to hear back on scholarships and my reach schools before making decisions though. I really loved Toronto (both the city and the school) when I visited. I only wish I could get Canadian loan rates from Scotiabank though

[Yeshia90]

Anyone telling you to go to Columbia before visiting it and NYU is deluded. There are very legitimate reasons to pick one school over the other: Columbia if you're absolutely dead-set on biglaw, want the lay prestige of an Ivy diploma, and don't really care about where you're living. NYU has an infinitely better P.I. infrastructure and a generous LRAP, is in the heart of one of the objectively best neighborhoods in the city, and has an entirely different vibe.

The ASW's overlap. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by not attending both.

And pidgeonholing yourself into academia is a poor choice unless you're getting into Yale.

[itoito]

Do you want to work for a firm? Would you be happy working for a firm? No one should plan on legal academia ex ante. The route just has too many places where you could mess it up.

Probably not after reading the billable hours document from Yale. My folks are paying for my tuition so I will end up with pretty much no debt. I guess I am also open to working in nonprofit or government, but I would much prefer some type of academia position

[itoito]

Anyone telling you to go to Columbia before visiting it and NYU is deluded. There are very legitimate reasons to pick one school over the other: Columbia if you're absolutely dead-set on biglaw, want the lay prestige of an Ivy diploma, and don't really care about where you're living. NYU has an infinitely better P.I. infrastructure and a generous LRAP, is in the heart of one of the objectively best neighborhoods in the city, and has an entirely different vibe.

The ASW's overlap. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by not attending both.

And pidgeonholing yourself into academia is a poor choice unless you're getting into Yale.

I am in the NYC area right now, and I have sort of visited both schools. I actually kinda prefer Columbia's campus, but I am more worried about the commute, maybe I did something wrong, but it took me 1 hr-ish to get to Columbia from Hoboken

[Grizz]

Do you want to work for a firm? Would you be happy working for a firm? No one should plan on legal academia ex ante. The route just has too many places where you could mess it up.

Probably not after reading the billable hours document from Yale. My folks are paying for my tuition so I will end up with pretty much no debt. I guess I am also open to working in nonprofit or government, but I would much prefer some type of academia position

Just FYI, law firm job is probably the most likely outcome of any of these schools.

[spleenworship]

Toronto.

Better job prospects.

Number one in Canada.

Tuition low for Canadian residents.

Win.

[nonprofit-prophet]

Send your Columbia acceptance to UT; they will probably up their offer. They initially offered me zero in scholarship money, but I sent some other offers and they at least gave me something, though not much. Granted, I didn't have an acceptance to Columbia. That should net you a good chunk of change.

[timbs4339]

I'm a current Columbia 3L. The chances of being able to go into academia from either CLS/NYU is slim. Unless you do a Ph.D. or get absolutely killer grades, you will probably have to go either the big firm route or the public interest/government one after graduation. Increasingly the legal academy is moving away from the JD > clerk > big firm for 3 years > professor track and focusing on Ph.Ds especially in areas like IP, so your situation in three or six years might be even worse. In terms of public interest, NYU has a better reputation, but I happen to think CLS's public interest career support is far better than it's private sector one and your ability to get a PI job will be largely dependent on your willingness to develop experience and connections in the field through clinics, externships, internships, etc.