Penn State v. Seton Hall Forum

[cconcklin1]

I am having trouble deciding between the two, I got more money from Seton Hall but that could be taken away because of stipulatoins in the scholarship. So at this point they are about even in how much I would spend.

Overall which school would be the better choice for a law school?

[romothesavior]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

[Grizz]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

Credited.

[cconcklin1]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

[Easy-E]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

Way too expensive, difficult stipulations on scholarships, and poor job prospects for the vast majority of graduates. This seems to be the consensus based on what I've seen. Cost-wise, Rutgers would be a much better choice in NJ, but theirs a lot of disagreement about the job prospects outside the highest percentage of the class. I've heard many many different opinions on that, and I really can't comment. But I've never heard anything good about Seton Hall, at least around here.

As far as Penn State, my understanding is that job prospects are also poor.

HTH

[ganggreen]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

Way too expensive, difficult stipulations on scholarships, and poor job prospects for the vast majority of graduates. This seems to be the consensus based on what I've seen. Cost-wise, Rutgers would be a much better choice in NJ, but theirs a lot of disagreement about the job prospects outside the highest percentage of the class. I've heard many many different opinions on that, and I really can't comment. But I've never heard anything good about Seton Hall, at least around here.

As far as Penn State, my understanding is that job prospects are also poor.

HTH

Staying above 2.75 is difficult? Seems like among all the stips I've received, it's one of the more lenient.

[thexfactor]

I would only go if you are sure that you are willing to drop out after your first year if you are not in the top 10% or top 25% first semester.

Go to the school that gives you the most money. Ask them if you can trade more scholarship money in your first year for higher gpa stipulation. I think SH has a slight advantage on placement over penn state due to the location.

If you studied poly sci, history or psychology.. might as well roll the dice to see if you can "make it." At this point in your life, 20-30k for a 10% chance at a good career isnt the worst gamble in the world.

[iceicebaby]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

There are a lot of SH haters on TLS (two of them have posted itt already), but the more that I've heard from reliable and smart people that actually go there, I think many of the views are somewhat unwarranted. Is the school expensive? Yes. BUT, if you have a decent scholarship there, it is a nice option. They are on the NLJ's Top 50 go-to law schools list and ranked #33 (check it out: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1). Now, of course, this means you should be in the top 25% of the class at least, but the potential payoff is much greater there than at Penn State (who isn't even on the aforementioned list). You should visit each school and get a feel for it, because basing where you want to go to school solely on reputation or hear-say is silly. I think you'll find that both places are fine schools with very nice and new facilities.

Also, while you should be careful about the stips on schollys, I echo what ganggreen (ugh, I hate the Jets...) has to say in that I really don't think a top 50% stip is something that should be a deal breaker. I know a 1L there now who got a 3.65 his first semester without really killing himself. He's a great guy and very smart, but he's kind of a slacker like I am and if he can get a 3.65 and be in the top 25-30% relatively easily, then I'm not going to be as worried. Of course, this is just all relative to each person, but I would honestly just visit the schools and choose which one seems to tickle your fancy more. I will say that maybe you should see if you can negotiate that scholly stipulation, though... I know I will try.

[ganggreen]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

There are a lot of SH haters on TLS (two of them have posted itt already), but the more that I've heard from reliable and smart people that actually go there, I think many of the views are somewhat unwarranted. Is the school expensive? Yes. BUT, if you have a decent scholarship there, it is a nice option. They are on the NLJ's Top 50 go-to law schools list and ranked #33 (check it out: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1). Now, of course, this means you should be in the top 25% of the class at least, but the potential payoff is much greater there than at Penn State (who isn't even on the aforementioned list). You should visit each school and get a feel for it, because basing where you want to go to school solely on reputation or hear-say is silly. I think you'll find that both places are fine schools with very nice and new facilities.

Also, while you should be careful about the stips on schollys, I echo what ganggreen (ugh, I hate the Jets...) has to say in that I really don't think a top 50% stip is something that should be a deal breaker. I know a 1L there now who got a 3.65 his first semester without really killing himself. He's a great guy and very smart, but he's kind of a slacker like I am and if he can get a 3.65 and be in the top 25-30% relatively easily, then I'm not going to be as worried. Of course, this is just all relative to each person, but I would honestly just visit the schools and choose which one seems to tickle your fancy more. I will say that maybe you should see if you can negotiate that scholly stipulation, though... I know I will try.

It's also a matter of where you want to work. Yes, if you want biglaw in NYC, you'll need to be top 10% to have a shot. People shit on NJ all the time, but if you want to work there, it's not a bad choice. Yes it's a regional school, but within the state its reputation is strong.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

TLS hate on SH for sure. Yes, it is in/near an over-saturated market, and yes, it competes with schools ranked much higher but you can land some good stuff out of SH. I have a few friends there that have done well there (biglaw/boutique lit) and they don't share the horror stories that others perpetuate.

[iceicebaby]

TLS hate on SH for sure. Yes, it is in/near an over-saturated market, and yes, it competes with schools ranked much higher but you can land some good stuff out of SH. I have a few friends there that have done well there (biglaw/boutique lit) and they don't share the horror stories that others perpetuate.

I've heard the same from two people I know who have done well and are doing well there. Unfortunately, all it takes is a few bitter SH Law grads that paid full boat and didn't place well for whatever reason to make a noise about how awful SH is. The problem is that many people on TLS went through the legal market crash at the worst possible time. SHU got hit hard in 2008 - 2010 but has rebounded extremely well and is on the rise (you'll notice that they are ranked #61 now by USNWR whereas on TLS, they still have their older ranking of #72 in 2008). My question is that with all of the schools getting sued for fudging employment figures in the NYC metro area, why isn't Seton Hall among them?

[romothesavior]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

Here is a good start.
This one is good for a chuckle
A perspective from JD Underground, which is FAR more harsh than TLS could ever hope to be (although maybe we'll be like this in 3-4 years when half the posters are unemployed, underemployed, or hate their lives) (LinkRemoved)

I compare going to a school like Seton Hall like buying a broken down bucket of bolts car for $40,000. Sure, the bucket of bolts car may get you from A to B (if you're lucky), but even if it does, why would you ever spend that kind of money to drive such a shitty car? And even worse, what if you never get from A to B?

Same goes for Seton Hall. You have a pretty significant chance of never being a lawyer, and even if you do, you're paying a shitload of money and getting little value in return. If you're going to spend that kind of money, you better be going to a legitimate law school that doesn't send a third of their students into clerkships with Judge Billy Bob in the highly preftigiouf NJ traffic courts.

ETA: Fixed links

[Grizz]

Not enough Valvoline Dean mentions ITT.

[romothesavior]

TLS hate on SH for sure. Yes, it is in/near an over-saturated market, and yes, it competes with schools ranked much higher but you can land some good stuff out of SH. I have a few friends there that have done well there (biglaw/boutique lit) and they don't share the horror stories that others perpetuate.

I've heard the same from two people I know who have done well and are doing well there. Unfortunately, all it takes is a few bitter SH Law grads that paid full boat and didn't place well for whatever reason to make a noise about how awful SH is. The problem is that many people on TLS went through the legal market crash at the worst possible time. SHU got hit hard in 2008 - 2010 but has rebounded extremely well and is on the rise (you'll notice that they are ranked #61 now by USNWR whereas on TLS, they still have their older ranking of #72 in 2008). My question is that with all of the schools getting sued for fudging employment figures in the NYC metro area, why isn't Seton Hall among them?

So many stupid things in this post, my head is hurting.

1. Two whole people doing well? Well then, sign me up.
2. SHU has not "rebounded extremely well." The mantra that lower tier law schools got hit hard by the recession but their poor employment is just a result of the recession is just crap. It's a myth. Enjoy this read. Seton Hall sucks, and has always sucked, and will continue to suck. 40% of 2008 Seton Hall grads worked in clerkships. Guess where most of those were? Certainly not Article III clerkships. So in other words, they clerked for some shitlaw court, then skipped on down to the bread lines. Pre-ITE.
3. The fact that you are quoting USNWR fluctuations as evidence of a "rebound" just shows how clueless you are. Absolutely retarded. Past the top tier, it rewards schools for learning to manipulate the system, not for actually providing quality education or employment opportunities. Seriously, learn something before you go to law school.
4. I'll bet you that if this first round of suits has any success, Settttttton Hall will be getting slapped with a complaint.

[iceicebaby]

Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.

I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=114489&p=2838250#p2838250
[url=http://T14%20Paradise.blogspot.com/2010/04/call-plumber-seton-hall-university.html]Another, this one is at least good for a chuckle[/url]
A perspective from JD Underground, which is FAR more harsh than TLS could ever hope to be (although maybe we'll be like this in 3-4 years when half the posters are unemployed, underemployed, or hate their lives) (LinkRemoved)

I compare going to a school like Seton Hall like buying a broken down bucket of bolts car for $40,000. Sure, the bucket of bolts car may get you from A to B (if you're lucky), but even if it does, why would you ever spend that kind of money to drive such a shitty car? And even worse, what if you never get from A to B?

Same goes for Seton Hall. You have a pretty significant chance of never being a lawyer, and even if you do, you're paying a shitload of money and getting little value in return. If you're going to spend that kind of money, you better be going to a legitimate law school that doesn't send a third of their students into clerkships with Judge Billy Bob in the highly preftigiouf NJ traffic courts.

Everything you're pointing to is from 2009/2010, when the market was wayyyyy worse. Show me something from 2011 and 2012 and I will be more impressed. You cannot take an extreme and apply it as the rule. Every school outside of the T14 suffered, and even many students in the T14 had problems. It has since gotten better and will continue to do so as long as people keep panicking that a market fluctuation is a sign of the legal apocalypse and don't apply at the kinds of rates that they did 2-3 years ago. Applications are down to the lowest point since 2000 and signs point that the legal market and legal hiring is getting better. Remember, you are building for a career... not just the next 3-4 years of your life. For me, paying $30k/year or less is worth it.

With that said, I still think you should visit both and think long and hard about where you would see yourself practicing law.

So many stupid things in this post, my head is hurting.

1. Two whole people doing well? Well then fuck, sign me up.
2. SHU has not "rebounded extremely well." The mantra that lower tier law schools got hit hard by the recession but their poor employment is just a result of the recession is just crap. It's a myth. Enjoy this read. Seton Hall sucks, and has always sucked, and will continue to suck.
3. The fact that you are quoting USNWR fluctuations as evidence of a "rebound" just shows how clueless you are. Absolutely retarded. Past the top tier, it rewards schools for learning to manipulate the system, not for actually providing quality education or employment opportunities. Seriously, learn something before you go to law school.
4. I'll bet you my left nut that if this first round of suits has any success, Settttttton Hall will be getting slapped with a complaint.

1. Like I would know the entire class. This isn't even a valid counterargument.
2. You keep saying Seton Hall sucks without telling us WHY. Seriously, back it up with relevant and recent evidence.
3. 91% bar passage rate in both NY and NJ. A school that sucks wouldn't have that solid of a passage rate. The student to faculty ratio is 14:1, which is decent. Tell us why moving slots from 72 to 61 is a bad thing and does not indicate some kind of positive trend before just saying I'm retarded.
4. This is just gross speculation. With the amount of disgruntled SH alums that are raping TLS with anti-SH banter, one would think that they would have been able to file a viable complaint already if there was anything to their bitching and moaning beyond, "well, it didn't work out for me, so it won't for everyone else." The special snowflake argument goes both ways, my friend.

[romothesavior]

I am really getting tired of your uninformed B.S. The market is NOT getting better for most people. The market has stagnated. Take it from someone who goes to the 18th best school in the country (since you seem so enamored with the fucking USNWR rankings) and has already been through two years of law school, as well as OCI. Things were roughly the same here as they were last year. The T14s are starting to bounce back, and the T1s a tiny bit, but the difference between 2009 and 2011 is negligible. The "things are getting better or are going to get better for me" bullshit is one of the most tired myths on TLS. Yes, things are going to get slightly better, but will it get better for you? Is the market going to recover enough for you? Even if the economy gets back to BOOMING, a huge chunk of Seton Hall grads are simply fucked. Check out their pre-ITE data. They are known for sending students into non-prestigious clerkships, clerkships which almost always lead to shitlaw or unemployment. That was before the recession. Enjoy traffic court.

Also, LOL @ citing bar passage as an indicator of a school's strength. My cat could pass the bar exam with six months and BarBri. It's like bragging about being above median on the LSAT. Yeah, who cares... everyone is doing it. You really are gonna throw cite bar passage to tell me SH is a good school? How about using, umm, I dunno, job placement?

Your willful ignorance is incredible. Everyone is telling you not to go, there are more scamblogs than I can count which focus on SHU, the evidence is all there, but hey... SH moved up in USNWR and had 90% bar passage! If you want to go, fine. I truly hope it works out for you. But confine the stupid to your own thread, and don't encourage other people to waste their money at this festering TTT.

[iceicebaby]

I am really getting tired of your uninformed bullshit. The market is NOT getting better for most people. The market has stagnated. Take it from someone who goes to the 18th best school in the country (since you seem so enamored with the fucking USNWR rankings) and has already been through two years of law school, as well as OCI. Things were roughly the same here as they were last year. The T14s are starting to bounce back, and the T1s a tiny bit, but the difference between 2009 and 2011 is negligible. The "things are getting better or are going to get better for me" bullshit is one of the most tired myths on TLS. Yes, things are going to get slightly better, but will it get better for you? Is the market going to recover enough for you? Even if the economy gets back to BOOMING, a huge chunk of Seton Hall grads are simply fucked. Check out their pre-ITE data. They are known for sending students into non-prestigious clerkships, clerkships which almost always lead to shitlaw or unemployment. That was before the recession. Enjoy traffic court.

Also, LOLOLOLOLOLOL @ citing bar passage as an indicator of a school's strength. My cat could pass the bar exam with six months and BarBri. It's like bragging about being above median on the LSAT. Yeah, who fucking cares... everyone is doing it. You really are gonna throw cite bar passage to tell me SH is a good school? How about using, umm, I dunno, job placement?

Your willful ignorance is incredible. Everyone is telling you not to go, there are more scamblogs than I can count which focus on SHU, the evidence is all there, but hey... SH moved up in USNWR and had 90% bar passage! If you want to go, fine. I truly hope it works out for you. But confine the stupid to your own thread, and don't encourage other people to waste their money at this festering turdbowl.

OP simply asked a question of whether to go to school at Penn State vs. Seton Hall, and you came in with your high and mighty ass-fuckery again and said basically "don't go" just like you did with my topic. It doesn't help anyone when you continue to spew your tired bullshit. Blogs and horror stories from a few sore and bitter people are opinions. The OP needs facts. Highlight them, or gtfo. You know, for a kid who is a 2L at a T20 school, your argumentation skills really suck. You should get a job at Fox News for fuck's sake. You'd be perfect saying something like, "Obama sucks because, well, he just sucks and everyone thinks so, too!"

OP, check out lawschooltransparency and do your own research by going to each school and evaluating them yourself. Don't listen to bitter fucks that have negative views on everything (yet they still go to law school, go figure?) and instead talk to and listen to ACTUAL students of the schools you are looking at.

[Easy-E]

1. Like I would know the entire class. This isn't even a valid counterargument.
2. You keep saying Seton Hall sucks without telling us WHY. Seriously, back it up with relevant and recent evidence.
3. 91% bar passage rate in both NY and NJ. A school that sucks wouldn't have that solid of a passage rate. The student to faculty ratio is 14:1, which is decent. Tell us why moving slots from 72 to 61 is a bad thing and does not indicate some kind of positive trend before just saying I'm retarded.
4. This is just gross speculation. With the amount of disgruntled SH alums that are raping TLS with anti-SH banter, one would think that they would have been able to file a viable complaint already if there was anything to their bitching and moaning beyond, "well, it didn't work out for me, so it won't for everyone else." The special snowflake argument goes both ways, my friend.

1. Your argument wasn't very strong to begin with, their wasn't much to work with.

2. I don't know the date on this, but this is TLS's conclusion on Seton Hall:

"Attending Seton Hall Law School should be a decision that is thought over with great care. The school's job prospects are mediocre for the vast majority of graduates, and the tuition is frankly outrageous. Despite what the U.S. News Rankings might say from year to year, one would almost undoubtedly be better off paying in-state tuition at one of the Rutgers schools. As a point of comparison, the annual in-state tuition for the Rutgers schools is $21,486, and the annual out-of-state tuition is $31,986. With Seton Hall clocking in at $45,048 for full-time students, attending without aid will likely lead to significant financial difficulties down the road. If you receive a significant scholarship and decide to attend, keep in mind that you must maintain a GPA in the top 50% of your class."

Of course, there is also this information: --LinkRemoved--

3. None of this says anything about job prospects. You can pass the bar and make shit money.

[Easy-E]

OP, check out lawschooltransparency and do your own research by going to each school and evaluating them yourself.

Less than 40% of salaries known. I'm sure the majority working Big Law were too busy to respond.

Known salaries range from 40-60k. More than I make now, except SH can cost you nearly 150k.

[thexfactor]

Wow romo really sees the "light now." I remember he was really defensive for me criticizing his decision for attending WUSTL instead of Cornell.

Ice: are you really that ignorant or are you just a troll? Romo is just trying to look out for other people. Stop blasting romo. Go look at some midlaw/biglaw firms in NJ/NY/PA and tell me how many SH or PINN state grads you see. Also let me know if you see ANY associates that aren't Magna cum laude + LR from those schools. Secondly, check NALP for the list of firms that recruit from SH. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Bottom line: is it impossible to get a good job from SH, no. Are the odds HEAVILY stacked against you? YES. If you want to go, just go for 1 year and be prepared to drop out if you are not in the top 15% or 10%. 20-30k for a 10% chance at a good career isn't the worst odds in the world... especially if you majored in english, history, poly sci or psychology.

Romo: i think we should just stop. No one really listens anyways.... there are just too many of them to save....

[iceicebaby]

1. Like I would know the entire class. This isn't even a valid counterargument.
2. You keep saying Seton Hall sucks without telling us WHY. Seriously, back it up with relevant and recent evidence.
3. 91% bar passage rate in both NY and NJ. A school that sucks wouldn't have that solid of a passage rate. The student to faculty ratio is 14:1, which is decent. Tell us why moving slots from 72 to 61 is a bad thing and does not indicate some kind of positive trend before just saying I'm retarded.
4. This is just gross speculation. With the amount of disgruntled SH alums that are raping TLS with anti-SH banter, one would think that they would have been able to file a viable complaint already if there was anything to their bitching and moaning beyond, "well, it didn't work out for me, so it won't for everyone else." The special snowflake argument goes both ways, my friend.

1. Your argument wasn't very strong to begin with, their wasn't much to work with.

2. I don't know the date on this, but this is TLS's conclusion on Seton Hall:

"Attending Seton Hall Law School should be a decision that is thought over with great care. The school's job prospects are mediocre for the vast majority of graduates, and the tuition is frankly outrageous. Despite what the U.S. News Rankings might say from year to year, one would almost undoubtedly be better off paying in-state tuition at one of the Rutgers schools. As a point of comparison, the annual in-state tuition for the Rutgers schools is $21,486, and the annual out-of-state tuition is $31,986. With Seton Hall clocking in at $45,048 for full-time students, attending without aid will likely lead to significant financial difficulties down the road. If you receive a significant scholarship and decide to attend, keep in mind that you must maintain a GPA in the top 50% of your class."

Of course, there is also this information: --LinkRemoved--

3. None of this says anything about job prospects. You can pass the bar and make shit money.

Listen, I'm gonna cut this off because it doesn't help the OP. If you want to talk, PM me. Otherwise, weigh in on the reasons why he should go to one over the other. I said he needed to figure out where he wants to practice and needs to visit both schools and talk to actual students at each to make up his mind. Coming on TLS is only helpful if the OP receives truly helpful responses. If you go to Penn State or SH, then speak up!

Keep in mind that LST has figures from 2009. The more recent ones reported in 2011 to the N.A.L.P. can be found here: http://law.shu.edu/ProspectiveStudents/ ... -Stats.cfm

[iceicebaby]

Wow romo really sees the "light now." I remember he was really defensive for me criticizing his decision for attending WUSTL instead of Cornell.

Romo is just trying to look out for other people. Stop blasting romo. Go look at some midlaw/biglaw firms in NJ/NY/PA and tell me how many SH or PINN state grads you see. Also let me know if you see ANY associates that aren't Magna cum laude + LR from those schools. Secondly, check NALP for the list of firms that recruit from SH. That should tell you all you need to know.

Bottom line: is it impossible to get a good job from SH, no. Are the odds stacked against you? YES.

If you want to go, just go for 1 year and be prepared to drop out if you are not in the top 15% or 10%. 20-30k for a 10% chance at a good career isn't the worst odds in the world... especially if you majored in english, history, poly sci or psychology.

Romo: i think we should just stop. No one really listens anyways.... there are just too many of them to save....

This is helpful advice.

I only blast those that utilize scare tactics and don't say anything truly helpful. Keep in mind that while you think you are "saving" people, there are many people that don't need you to "save" them. It's like you're the Mormons that I turn away from my door all the time that spew on about salvation. We want to go to law school, we don't have to tell YOU why. We simply just want help with figuring out which is the best for US, not in general or for others. I had started a similar topic for myself, and in came Grizz and Romo telling me about how much of a "toilet" Seton Hall and Rutgers are. I'm sorry, but that shit doesn't help.

[Easy-E]

1. Like I would know the entire class. This isn't even a valid counterargument.
2. You keep saying Seton Hall sucks without telling us WHY. Seriously, back it up with relevant and recent evidence.
3. 91% bar passage rate in both NY and NJ. A school that sucks wouldn't have that solid of a passage rate. The student to faculty ratio is 14:1, which is decent. Tell us why moving slots from 72 to 61 is a bad thing and does not indicate some kind of positive trend before just saying I'm retarded.
4. This is just gross speculation. With the amount of disgruntled SH alums that are raping TLS with anti-SH banter, one would think that they would have been able to file a viable complaint already if there was anything to their bitching and moaning beyond, "well, it didn't work out for me, so it won't for everyone else." The special snowflake argument goes both ways, my friend.

1. Your argument wasn't very strong to begin with, their wasn't much to work with.

2. I don't know the date on this, but this is TLS's conclusion on Seton Hall:

"Attending Seton Hall Law School should be a decision that is thought over with great care. The school's job prospects are mediocre for the vast majority of graduates, and the tuition is frankly outrageous. Despite what the U.S. News Rankings might say from year to year, one would almost undoubtedly be better off paying in-state tuition at one of the Rutgers schools. As a point of comparison, the annual in-state tuition for the Rutgers schools is $21,486, and the annual out-of-state tuition is $31,986. With Seton Hall clocking in at $45,048 for full-time students, attending without aid will likely lead to significant financial difficulties down the road. If you receive a significant scholarship and decide to attend, keep in mind that you must maintain a GPA in the top 50% of your class."

Of course, there is also this information: --LinkRemoved--

3. None of this says anything about job prospects. You can pass the bar and make shit money.

Listen, I'm gonna cut this off because it doesn't help the OP. If you want to talk, PM me. Otherwise, weigh in on the reasons why he should go to one over the other. I said he needed to figure out where he wants to practice and needs to visit both schools and talk to actual students at each to make up his mind. Coming on TLS is only helpful if the OP receives truly helpful responses. If you go to Penn State or SH, then speak up!

Keep in mind that LST has figures from 2009. The more recent ones reported in 2011 to the N.A.L.P. can be found here: http://law.shu.edu/ProspectiveStudents/ ... -Stats.cfm

We are discussing the reasons to attend (or not attend) Seton Hall. Why do you have to go to the school to know about the job prospects vs cost?

[Easy-E]

I only blast those that utilize scare tactics and don't say anything truly helpful. Keep in mind that while you think you are "saving" people, there are many people that don't need you to "save" them. It's like you're the Mormons that I turn away from my door all the time that spew on about salvation. We want to go to law school, we don't have to tell YOU why. We simply just want help with figuring out which is the best for US, not in general or for others.

The difference is that Mormons are soliciting you. The OP (and all others with similar questions) are asking for our opinions on the matter. If you need the answers you get to be tailor crafted to the decision you already plan to make, this forum isn't for you.

[iceicebaby]

1. Like I would know the entire class. This isn't even a valid counterargument.
2. You keep saying Seton Hall sucks without telling us WHY. Seriously, back it up with relevant and recent evidence.
3. 91% bar passage rate in both NY and NJ. A school that sucks wouldn't have that solid of a passage rate. The student to faculty ratio is 14:1, which is decent. Tell us why moving slots from 72 to 61 is a bad thing and does not indicate some kind of positive trend before just saying I'm retarded.
4. This is just gross speculation. With the amount of disgruntled SH alums that are raping TLS with anti-SH banter, one would think that they would have been able to file a viable complaint already if there was anything to their bitching and moaning beyond, "well, it didn't work out for me, so it won't for everyone else." The special snowflake argument goes both ways, my friend.

1. Your argument wasn't very strong to begin with, their wasn't much to work with.

2. I don't know the date on this, but this is TLS's conclusion on Seton Hall:

"Attending Seton Hall Law School should be a decision that is thought over with great care. The school's job prospects are mediocre for the vast majority of graduates, and the tuition is frankly outrageous. Despite what the U.S. News Rankings might say from year to year, one would almost undoubtedly be better off paying in-state tuition at one of the Rutgers schools. As a point of comparison, the annual in-state tuition for the Rutgers schools is $21,486, and the annual out-of-state tuition is $31,986. With Seton Hall clocking in at $45,048 for full-time students, attending without aid will likely lead to significant financial difficulties down the road. If you receive a significant scholarship and decide to attend, keep in mind that you must maintain a GPA in the top 50% of your class."

Of course, there is also this information: --LinkRemoved--

3. None of this says anything about job prospects. You can pass the bar and make shit money.

Listen, I'm gonna cut this off because it doesn't help the OP. If you want to talk, PM me. Otherwise, weigh in on the reasons why he should go to one over the other. I said he needed to figure out where he wants to practice and needs to visit both schools and talk to actual students at each to make up his mind. Coming on TLS is only helpful if the OP receives truly helpful responses. If you go to Penn State or SH, then speak up!

Keep in mind that LST has figures from 2009. The more recent ones reported in 2011 to the N.A.L.P. can be found here: http://law.shu.edu/ProspectiveStudents/ ... -Stats.cfm

We are discussing the reasons to attend (or not attend) Seton Hall over Penn State, and vice versa.

FTFY. OP is deciding between two different schools. He needs to go see these places to make that decision. If you think that you should go to a school and spend a lot of money based solely upon skewed employment data and speculation, then I think it would be hard to take any advice you would offer.