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I know many of you are going to say neither because you hate both options, but I thought I'd try to scoop up some opinions to help me with my decision.

I have narrowed my choices down to Iowa or Drake (a tiny TTT in Des Moines).

Before you rush to judgment and say that Iowa is the obvious choice, know that there are other factors in play.

1) I own a home that I cannot sell (I'm under water on it, the market is bad, I can't afford to pay back the tax credit)

2) My wife has a $40+ job here that she doesn't want to give up and will be staying in Des Moines.

3) I have two kids that I like to see occasionally.

4) I have a $30k/yr scholarship at Drake (YES, there are stips, more on that below)

5) I have no desire to work BigLaw and will be practicing in Des Moines. I want to do employment law either for a firm or work for a company in town (most of them are insurance or financial products companies)

6) I would be thrilled to make $50k/year out of law school (this would be a significant raise for me even with a $1200/month loan payment)

7) Drake places better than any other school in the Des Moines market. It isn't well-known elsewhere.

Okay, more on the stips: The first year is guaranteed. It renews for the second year if I am top 35% (cumulative) after either the fall or spring semester. If I am not top 35% after either semester, but am top 40% after the fall semester, it renews at half. If I am in the top 50% after the fall semester, it renews at 10%. If it is lost, it can be regained if I meet the above requirements again. Complicated, I know.

Iowa is at sticker, and my plan would be to rent a room and commute by bus the two hours to get there each week, stay for the week, and then commute back for the weekend.

Vote and discuss away.

I wouldn't even consider Iowa at sticker, especially since it means leaving your family. Go to Drake.

ETA: TCR is probably to stay in your current field and not to saddle your family with debt for a degree that likely doesn't improve your job prospects.

I voted Drake. I don't think Iowa is worth sticker or the hassle.

The issue is, you probably won't make $50,000 your first year out of Drake.

Aside from that, it is a very tough decision as both options are less than desirable.

For clarification, Iowa is in-state tuition for those who didn't realize that. If I lose the scholarhip, Drake is slightly cheaper (before additional expenses). If I keep it, it's about $30k cheaper.

I am leaning toward Drake, but I honestly don't like the thought of third tier schools. I personally know that the quality of education at Drake is great, and I know people who have done really well in Des Moines going to Drake. I've also seen thirdtierreality and know that that guy went to Drake.

I just wanted to see if there was an argument for Iowa.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue is, you probably won't make $50,000 your first year out of Drake.

Aside from that, it is a very tough decision as both options are less than desirable.

True, I'd probably be making more like $40,000 unless I am at the top of the class. Top 10% will get you $80-$100k in Des Moines. Top 30ish% will get you a firm job at a small firm making $50kish. Below that and it varies. $40k seems to be about the norm. I'd be okay at $40k for probably 2-5 years honestly. I also know a good number of lawyers in town and have contacts in the county attorney's office, so I think I have a decent chance at finding a job.

Opie wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue is, you probably won't make $50,000 your first year out of Drake.

Aside from that, it is a very tough decision as both options are less than desirable.

True, I'd probably be making more like $40,000 unless I am at the top of the class. Top 10% will get you $80-$100k in Des Moines. Top 30ish% will get you a firm job at a small firm making $50kish. Below that and it varies. $40k seems to be about the norm. I'd be okay at $40k for probably 2-5 years honestly. I also know a good number of lawyers in town and have contacts in the county attorney's office, so I think I have a decent chance at finding a job.

I have no idea what the employment stats for Drake are in Iowa, but if this is remotely true and you're ok with $40-50k per year, then I say go for Drake. If possible though, I would try to negotiate those stips on the scholarship though...they look rather nasty. I don't know if you can negotiate using Iowa at sticker as leverage, maybe you can, but maybe you could apply to a few places where you might get scholarship money and then use that as leverage against Drake? A full ride and living with the family sounds great...but those stips are harsh.

Opie wrote:I know many of you are going to say neither because you hate both options, but I thought I'd try to scoop up some opinions to help me with my decision.

I have narrowed my choices down to Iowa or Drake (a tiny TTT in Des Moines).

Before you rush to judgment and say that Iowa is the obvious choice, know that there are other factors in play.

1) I own a home that I cannot sell (I'm under water on it, the market is bad, I can't afford to pay back the tax credit)

2) My wife has a $40+ job here that she doesn't want to give up and will be staying in Des Moines.

3) I have two kids that I like to see occasionally.

4) I have a $30k/yr scholarship at Drake (YES, there are stips, more on that below)

5) I have no desire to work BigLaw and will be practicing in Des Moines. I want to do employment law either for a firm or work for a company in town (most of them are insurance or financial products companies)

6) I would be thrilled to make $50k/year out of law school (this would be a significant raise for me even with a $1200/month loan payment)

7) Drake places better than any other school in the Des Moines market. It isn't well-known elsewhere.

Okay, more on the stips: The first year is guaranteed. It renews for the second year if I am top 35% (cumulative) after either the fall or spring semester. If I am not top 35% after either semester, but am top 40% after the fall semester, it renews at half. If I am in the top 50% after the fall semester, it renews at 10%. If it is lost, it can be regained if I meet the above requirements again. Complicated, I know.

Iowa is at sticker, and my plan would be to rent a room and commute by bus the two hours to get there each week, stay for the week, and then commute back for the weekend.

Vote and discuss away.

To me it sounds like Drake is your best option. It sounds like it would be ideal for your family as well and you could live in your current home witha short commute, correct?

What would your total debt be at Drake assuming you lose the scholarship (not that this will happen, but good to prepare for the worst and hope for the best)

Doorkeeper wrote:

Opie wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue is, you probably won't make $50,000 your first year out of Drake.

Aside from that, it is a very tough decision as both options are less than desirable.

True, I'd probably be making more like $40,000 unless I am at the top of the class. Top 10% will get you $80-$100k in Des Moines. Top 30ish% will get you a firm job at a small firm making $50kish. Below that and it varies. $40k seems to be about the norm. I'd be okay at $40k for probably 2-5 years honestly. I also know a good number of lawyers in town and have contacts in the county attorney's office, so I think I have a decent chance at finding a job.

I have no idea what the employment stats for Drake are in Iowa, but if this is remotely true and you're ok with $40-50k per year, then I say go for Drake. If possible though, I would try to negotiate those stips on the scholarship though...they look rather nasty. I don't know if you can negotiate using Iowa at sticker as leverage, maybe you can, but maybe you could apply to a few places where you might get scholarship money and then use that as leverage against Drake? A full ride and living with the family sounds great...but those stips are harsh.

If you could get them to waive the stips using your Iowa acceptance, or maybe a full ride with no stips from another school then you would be golden for your situation

Like everyone else, I say go to Drake over Iowa.




The only thing I'll add is that in the event you lose your scholarship after a year I'd be prepared to consider whether returning is worth it.

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Opie wrote:I know many of you are going to say neither because you hate both options, but I thought I'd try to scoop up some opinions to help me with my decision.

I have narrowed my choices down to Iowa or Drake (a tiny TTT in Des Moines).

Before you rush to judgment and say that Iowa is the obvious choice, know that there are other factors in play.

1) I own a home that I cannot sell (I'm under water on it, the market is bad, I can't afford to pay back the tax credit)

2) My wife has a $40+ job here that she doesn't want to give up and will be staying in Des Moines.

3) I have two kids that I like to see occasionally.

4) I have a $30k/yr scholarship at Drake (YES, there are stips, more on that below)

5) I have no desire to work BigLaw and will be practicing in Des Moines. I want to do employment law either for a firm or work for a company in town (most of them are insurance or financial products companies)

6) I would be thrilled to make $50k/year out of law school (this would be a significant raise for me even with a $1200/month loan payment)

7) Drake places better than any other school in the Des Moines market. It isn't well-known elsewhere.

Okay, more on the stips: The first year is guaranteed. It renews for the second year if I am top 35% (cumulative) after either the fall or spring semester. If I am not top 35% after either semester, but am top 40% after the fall semester, it renews at half. If I am in the top 50% after the fall semester, it renews at 10%. If it is lost, it can be regained if I meet the above requirements again. Complicated, I know.

Iowa is at sticker, and my plan would be to rent a room and commute by bus the two hours to get there each week, stay for the week, and then commute back for the weekend.

Vote and discuss away.

To me it sounds like Drake is your best option. It sounds like it would be ideal for your family as well and you could live in your current home witha short commute, correct?

What would your total debt be at Drake assuming you lose the scholarship (not that this will happen, but good to prepare for the worst and hope for the best)

Drake is like 5 minutes from my house.

If I lost the scholly after first year the total tuition (based on last year's tuition because next year's isn't out yet) would be $73,908 including fees. Plus living expenses and books, which are hard to estimate. Assuming I took out the max based on last year's numbers it would be $17,900 per year for a total debt of $127,632. I'm not planning on necessarily taking out the full amount though. Especially second and third year.

Opie wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Opie wrote:I know many of you are going to say neither because you hate both options, but I thought I'd try to scoop up some opinions to help me with my decision.

I have narrowed my choices down to Iowa or Drake (a tiny TTT in Des Moines).

Before you rush to judgment and say that Iowa is the obvious choice, know that there are other factors in play.

1) I own a home that I cannot sell (I'm under water on it, the market is bad, I can't afford to pay back the tax credit)

2) My wife has a $40+ job here that she doesn't want to give up and will be staying in Des Moines.

3) I have two kids that I like to see occasionally.

4) I have a $30k/yr scholarship at Drake (YES, there are stips, more on that below)

5) I have no desire to work BigLaw and will be practicing in Des Moines. I want to do employment law either for a firm or work for a company in town (most of them are insurance or financial products companies)

6) I would be thrilled to make $50k/year out of law school (this would be a significant raise for me even with a $1200/month loan payment)

7) Drake places better than any other school in the Des Moines market. It isn't well-known elsewhere.

Okay, more on the stips: The first year is guaranteed. It renews for the second year if I am top 35% (cumulative) after either the fall or spring semester. If I am not top 35% after either semester, but am top 40% after the fall semester, it renews at half. If I am in the top 50% after the fall semester, it renews at 10%. If it is lost, it can be regained if I meet the above requirements again. Complicated, I know.

Iowa is at sticker, and my plan would be to rent a room and commute by bus the two hours to get there each week, stay for the week, and then commute back for the weekend.

Vote and discuss away.

To me it sounds like Drake is your best option. It sounds like it would be ideal for your family as well and you could live in your current home witha short commute, correct?

What would your total debt be at Drake assuming you lose the scholarship (not that this will happen, but good to prepare for the worst and hope for the best)

Drake is like 5 minutes from my house.

If I lost the scholly after first year the total tuition (based on last year's tuition because next year's isn't out yet) would be $73,908 including fees. Plus living expenses and books, which are hard to estimate. Assuming I took out the max based on last year's numbers it would be $17,900 per year for a total debt of $127,632. I'm not planning on necessarily taking out the full amount though. Especially second and third year.

Well I think its worth a go. You wont have extra expenses for rent. If you kick ass you will graduate with rediculously low debt. Good luck at Drake man

I'd try to negotiate the stips at Drake, but in your situation it seems like the better choice.

citykitty wrote:I'd try to negotiate the stips at Drake, but in your situation it seems like the better choice.

I don't think Drake will negotiate the stips from what I have heard. I may attempt, but I've heard that they don't do any scholarship negotiation at all. They don't really play the admissions game. They give their best scholarships to people they should be YPing. It's a weird school. It's third tier, but in Des Moines people assume it's like half a step from Harvard for some reason.

ETA: by people, I mean non-law people.

Do you know if they "section-stack" (put all the scholarship students into the same section so a set % of them lose their scholarship each year)?

Negotiate the stips. tell Drake you are prepared to leave your family to attend Illinois or something. They'll think they have you by the balls. Remember its a business, nothing more.

They don't section stack that I have been able to tell. I know a lot of people that went there, including one who graduated at the top of her class. I've been told top 35% is tough, but not insurmountable if you know what you're doing and are smart, work hard, etc.

I may attempt to get the stips removed, but I seriously doubt it will happen. I've never heard of anyone negotiating anything with them.

Opie wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue is, you probably won't make $50,000 your first year out of Drake.

Aside from that, it is a very tough decision as both options are less than desirable.

True, I'd probably be making more like $40,000 unless I am at the top of the class. Top 10% will get you $80-$100k in Des Moines. Top 30ish% will get you a firm job at a small firm making $50kish. Below that and it varies. $40k seems to be about the norm. I'd be okay at $40k for probably 2-5 years honestly. I also know a good number of lawyers in town and have contacts in the county attorney's office, so I think I have a decent chance at finding a job.

Well, keep in mind that even $40k is optimistic. I'm not trying to be snarky at all, but unemployment is just as likely, especially given that it seems like you'll have to keep your employment search very narrow geographically as well.

Drake is the obvious choice simply because you'd much rather be unemployed with little to no debt than unemployed with a ton of debt. I'd only go to Iowa if you knew you wanted to *try* to leave Iowa.

Opie wrote:

citykitty wrote:I'd try to negotiate the stips at Drake, but in your situation it seems like the better choice.

I don't think Drake will negotiate the stips from what I have heard. I may attempt, but I've heard that they don't do any scholarship negotiation at all. They don't really play the admissions game. They give their best scholarships to people they should be YPing. It's a weird school. It's third tier, but in Des Moines people assume it's like half a step from Harvard for some reason.

ETA: by people, I mean non-law people.

Hey Opie. This is SOOOOO true. If you want to work in Des Moines anyway, might as well attend the Harvard of Des Moines at a bargain rate. I also wouldn't mind less competition at Iowa

I also got into these school, but not really considering them anymore.

Drake looks like the best choice for you. I live just out of Iowa, and I know a lot of Drake grads that are doing fine in Iowa. Sure, Iowa would be a much better school, but Drake's control over Des Moines is excellent, and you already have a house there...just stay put. Also, don't add living apart from your wife to the stress that you already be under in law school. There's nothing wrong with a Drake J.D. if you like that area. Congrats and work hard to keep that scholly.

You probably wouldn't be asking this if it were true, but do you have any connections in Des Moines? As is, an explicit offer waiting for you there after graduation? I would want that for either school. No way should you go to Iowa at sticker.

Nobody wrote:You probably wouldn't be asking this if it were true, but do you have any connections in Des Moines? As is, an explicit offer waiting for you there after graduation? I would want that for either school. No way should you go to Iowa at sticker.

No, I don't have any explicit offers. I have one encouragement to apply for their internship and one partner that I'm good friends with. And other lawyers I'm friends with that could be partner or close by the time I'm out of law school.

Nelson, just caught your edit. I don't really have a current field. Just got fired from my crappy job and have been stuck at $28-33k for the last 7 years with no prospects for improvement.

Try to use your Drake scholarship for leverage with Iowa. Then use whatever you get from Iowa as leverage for removing stips. Worth a try at least.

I vote don't go.

Seriously man? Underwater on your mortgage? And you want to take on MORE debt to go to LS that is non top 20?

I mean if you had no debt and you really wanted to be a lawyer that would be something... but that stipulation is horrible and you are betting too much on it.

What happens if you go to Drake, take on the debt and don't get a job.

I'll tell you what happens: You just jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.

Jwb0711 wrote:I vote don't go.

Seriously man? Underwater on your mortgage? And you want to take on MORE debt to go to LS that is non top 20?

I mean if you had no debt and you really wanted to be a lawyer that would be something... but that stipulation is horrible and you are betting too much on it.

What happens if you go to Drake, take on the debt and don't get a job.

I'll tell you what happens: You just jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.

I bought the house under two years ago. Everyone is underwater at that point.

Here's a question I've oft wondered: What happens if you just don't pay your student loans?