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Got into Georgetown and Fordham,

I am not qualified to give you advice. But there is a very significant gap between G'town and Cardozo. G'town might be worth the debt.

Fordham is great for NYC, but I'm not sure if it beats out G'town in NY job prospects. Nationally, G'town has WAY better reputation.

TLS downplays G'town a lot. In my personal and biased experience, I have never met a single GULC grad who had not done well for themselves. Most of them are in NYC BigLaw.

GULC places in NYC. Wait until you know how much $ you get from Fordham. If none, you can try to negotiate with them when it comes to deposit time, but I would honestly still take GULC.

If you were going to be taking on any real debt at Cardozo, I would say GULC for sure...but the fact that you could graduate for free from a NYC law school that isn't (insert TTT bashing here), but is top 50, is a little tempting. Obviously you should see if Fordham/GULC will offer you any money before deciding.

I would be thinking about how you'll be graduating 3-4 years from now (I assume)...the legal hiring economy could be better, or it could have gotten even worse (or stay the same, obviously). If the economy gets worse, then GULC students will probably be having a harder time with biglaw (except the very top few), and regardless of your exact chances from Cardozo you might be relieved at that point to have earned a law degree and not feel any debt pressure. If the economy gets better, then maybe more students from Cardozo will be getting biglaw placements.

Are you going to have to take on some/substantial debt for the difference between cost of attendance and tuition? Obviously, what matters is overall debt regardless of category (tuition, housing, living, etc). Don't get me wrong, I think there is a substantial difference between GULC/Fordham/Cardozo, namely that how well you have to do relative to your peers increases as you go down the line to have similar prospects. If the difference in prices becomes close enough, you should pick the higher ranked school if you're aiming straight for biglaw.

It also depends what you mean by "any decent job" in NYC. I think a Cardozo grad who does pretty well will have the chance to work at smaller, maybe mid-size firms.

Sorry for the ramble...

pcwcecac wrote: TLS downplays G'town a lot. In my personal and biased experience, I have never met a single GULC grad who had not done well for themselves. Most of them are in NYC BigLaw.

Recently?

lol no

mel2010 wrote: I would be thinking about how you'll be graduating 3-4 years from now (I assume)...the legal hiring economy could be better, or it could have gotten even worse (or stay the same, obviously). If the economy gets worse, then GULC students will probably be having a harder time with biglaw (except the very top few), and regardless of your exact chances from Cardozo you might be relieved at that point to have earned a law degree and not feel any debt pressure. If the economy gets better, then maybe more students from Cardozo will be getting biglaw placements.

OCI for c/o 2015 is in Fall 2013 bro. So for biglaw hiring, it's really what the economy is looking like then.

It's not gonna get much better by then.

mel2010 wrote:If you were going to be taking on any debt, I would say GULC for sure...but the fact that you could graduate for free from a NYC law school that isn't (insert TTT bashing here), but is top 50, is a little tempting. Obviously you should see if Fordham/GULC will offer you any money before deciding.

Also top 50 is a meaningless category.

Grizz wrote:

pcwcecac wrote: TLS downplays G'town a lot. In my personal and biased experience, I have never met a single GULC grad who had not done well for themselves. Most of them are in NYC BigLaw.

Recently?

lol no

You're probably right.

OCI for c/o 2015 is in Fall 2013 bro. So for biglaw hiring, it's really what the economy is looking like then.

It's not gonna get much better by then.

Also top 50 is a meaningless category.

Well, I don't know if he's definitely entering C/O 2015, because Cardozo allows up to two years deferment. Also, I don't know if he will be doing fall or spring OCI. Also, I don't know if how set he is on biglaw versus the other jobs he mentioned. Anyways, the point is he has (even using your assumptions of Fall 2013) almost 2 years before he will be interviewing. I suppose you know how the hiring economy is going to be then, brostradamus?

I think you're probably right that it won't be much better, but I think if he can avoid debt at Cardozo it might be better either way. Like I said, if things get worse at least he won't be in any/much(?) debt (depending on the COA question) and if things get better then Cardozo students will have a better chance that they do now.

Top 50 is as meaningless as anything (OK, maybe a bit more meaningless than T14), but what I meant by that is that for NYC jobs (particularly non-biglaw, which he said he was considering) Cardozo is not a lost cause. It obviously outperforms the schools like NYLS, Touro, Pace, CUNY; and I think it probably outperforms many of the non-T14 schools above it (again, for NYC jobs).

With the current economy, and without predicting dramatic changes, I basically think it would be a mistake to take any of these options and assume a good chance of biglaw. But if you're going to gamble, might as well minimize the risk by minimizing debt at a school that is by no means so bad that it eliminates all hope of gainful legal employment (including in a non-biglaw context).

But, OP, keep in mind that I'm just a 1L who does not go to any school mentioned. I don't know much more about this (if any) than you do, these are just my thoughts.

mel2010 wrote: Well, I don't know if he's definitely entering C/O 2015, because Cardozo allows up to two years deferment. Also, I don't know if he will be doing fall or spring OCI. Also, I don't know if how set he is on biglaw versus the other jobs he mentioned. Anyways, the point is he has (even using your assumptions of Fall 2013) almost 2 years before he will be interviewing. I suppose you know how the hiring economy is going to be then, brostradamus?

It's a fair assumption that he's gonna be c/o 2015 by creating this thread. You're the one who brought up biglaw hiring bro. It seems like you don't really know how this works. Basically 99.9% of biglaw hiring happens in the fall of 2L year. And that's your one shot. 3L OCI is almost nonexistent, and I don't even know what a "spring OCI" is. Basically every credible legal news source (ATL, WSJ Law Blog, NALP, etc.) is of the opinion that's it not gonna get much better anytime soon.

I would wait to see where else you get in OP. If you got GULC, wait to see where else you got in and what money you got for sure. I wouldn't take sticker debt at GULC or Fordham, and I wouldn't go to Cardozo.

Grizz wrote:I would wait to see where else you get in OP. If you got GULC, wait to see where else you got in and what money you got for sure. I wouldn't take sticker debt at GULC or Fordham, and I wouldn't go to Cardozo.

So let's say OP (unlike the majority of more rational people on TLS) is dead-set on going to law school. If they couldn't be talked out of it and had a choice between GULC sticker and Cardozo debt-free (let's assume, although we still don't have the answer on COA), with a worsening legal economy ahead, which would you recommend?

Thanks for all the replies. Just to straighten out a few points. I will be c/o 2015. My parents will take Care of Cost of living ect. So it's just tuition debt. I would like to get big law but if not I would def go to midsize firm, I know young associates who really like it there.

AbLSAT wrote:Thanks for all the replies. Just to straighten out a few points. I will be c/o 2015. My parents will take Care of Cost of living ect. So it's just tuition debt. I would like to get big law but if not I would def go to midsize firm, I know young associates who really like it there.

The good thing about going to Cardozo for free (and apparently that means TOTALLY free and not just free tuition) is that you would have a lot of options post grad. Whereas if you went to Fordham or GULC for full tuition, you would NEED biglaw to pay that off.

Unless you have rich parents. Then go to Georgetown.

InGoodFaith wrote:

AbLSAT wrote:Thanks for all the replies. Just to straighten out a few points. I will be c/o 2015. My parents will take Care of Cost of living ect. So it's just tuition debt. I would like to get big law but if not I would def go to midsize firm, I know young associates who really like it there.

The good thing about going to Cardozo for free (and apparently that means TOTALLY free and not just free tuition) is that you would have a lot of options post grad. Whereas if you went to Fordham or GULC for full tuition, you would NEED biglaw to pay that off.

Unless you have rich parents. Then go to Georgetown.

TITCR. Cardozo full ride with no COL (assuming you don't lose the scholly because of stips) sounds like a far more comfortable situation than 150k+ of debt from Fordham or GULC.

Grizz wrote:

mel2010 wrote: Well, I don't know if he's definitely entering C/O 2015, because Cardozo allows up to two years deferment. Also, I don't know if he will be doing fall or spring OCI. Also, I don't know if how set he is on biglaw versus the other jobs he mentioned. Anyways, the point is he has (even using your assumptions of Fall 2013) almost 2 years before he will be interviewing. I suppose you know how the hiring economy is going to be then, brostradamus?

It's a fair assumption that he's gonna be c/o 2015 by creating this thread. You're the one who brought up biglaw hiring bro. It seems like you don't really know how this works. Basically 99.9% of biglaw hiring happens in the fall of 2L year. And that's your one shot. 3L OCI is almost nonexistent, and I don't even know what a "spring OCI" is. Basically every credible legal news source (ATL, WSJ Law Blog, NALP, etc.) is of the opinion that's it not gonna get much better anytime soon.

I would wait to see where else you get in OP. If you got GULC, wait to see where else you got in and what money you got for sure. I wouldn't take sticker debt at GULC or Fordham, and I wouldn't go to Cardozo.

Why do you refer to everyone as bro?

AbLSAT wrote:Thanks for all the replies. Just to straighten out a few points. I will be c/o 2015. My parents will take Care of Cost of living ect. So it's just tuition debt. I would like to get big law but if not I would def go to midsize firm, I know young associates who really like it there.

The problem with midsize firms is that there's not a ton who hire new grads.

Most likely outcome for you at Dozo is like $50kish (see the bimodal salary distribution curve). Not terrible with no debt. But you might hate your life working insane hours and living in NYC for $50kish.

ok got 30k a year at Fordham

AbLSAT wrote:ok got 30k a year at Fordham, so basically 2/3 free, free at cardozo, no word on money from GULC.

If no stips, I'd go to Fordham given your choices. Especially since parents will cover CoL.

Grizz wrote:

AbLSAT wrote:ok got 30k a year at Fordham, so basically 2/3 free, free at cardozo, no word on money from GULC.

If no stips, I'd go to Fordham given your choices. Especially since parents will cover CoL.

yep. ~$45k total debt right? if im understanding the col stuff. $45k is manageable. better than $200k from gtown.

I read that as "$30k a year in scholarship money to Fordham." In which case, go to Fordham for sure. It's a way better school than Cardozo in terms of employment prospects.

making a similar decision between fordham and cardozo however i did not get anywhere close to 30k at fordham if i had i would go to fordham hands down

Anyone who gets $30k a year at Fordham should be getting into CCN.

I recently visited Cardozo, and out of five 3Ls I talked to, only one had found a job (something corporate, but it's entirely possible that it was through familial networking rather than Cardozo's Careers Office).

Fordham sounds like your best bet right now. It's got a good reputation here in NY.

I'm a Georgetown alum in NYC big law if you have any questions.

Obvious personal bias, but I would certainly choose Georgetown in your situation.

I wouldn't take on sticker debt at GULC.