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As someone who is highly conflicted about W&L right now I'm very interested

Its no different than any other state, cities and small towns. UVA + several fungible law schools. There is nothing unique about its legal market. Most law school grads end up in smaller firms. I dont think W&L has much sway in the northern end of the state and I dont think GMU has much sway in the south.

bump

Very ties centric. Surprisingly grades centric. Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw. At UVA will depend on the strength of your ties and other softs. Still surprisingly difficult.

MrAnon wrote:Its no different than any other state, cities and small towns. UVA + several fungible law schools. There is nothing unique about its legal market. Most law school grads end up in smaller firms. I dont think W&L has much sway in the northern end of the state and I dont think GMU has much sway in the south.

Any evidence of this? Seems like a pretty arbitrary conclusion.

And W&L has the highest bar passage rate in VA.

BruceWayne wrote:Very ties centric. Surprisingly grades centric. Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw. At UVA will depend on the strength of your ties and other softs. Still surprisingly difficult.

I'm just curious, are you currently working in Ricmond as a lawyer? Or are you just a speculating 1L? Your statement is not particularly true.

I'm also very interested in this. Any information would be much appreciated!

This website is filled to the brim with garbage information presented as knowledge

silenttimer wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:Very ties centric. Surprisingly grades centric. Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw. At UVA will depend on the strength of your ties and other softs. Still surprisingly difficult.

I'm just curious, are you currently working in Ricmond as a lawyer? Or are you just a speculating 1L? Your statement is not particularly true.

I'll bite; which part do you think is untrue? The part about caring about Virginia ties or the part about being grade focused? So in your experience ties aren't important and neither are grades?

BruceWayne wrote:

silenttimer wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:Very ties centric. Surprisingly grades centric. Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw. At UVA will depend on the strength of your ties and other softs. Still surprisingly difficult.

I'm just curious, are you currently working in Ricmond as a lawyer? Or are you just a speculating 1L? Your statement is not particularly true.

I'll bite; which part do you think is untrue? The part about caring about Virginia ties or the part about being grade focused? So in your experience ties aren't important and neither are grades?

"Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw." I know many people without "sky high grades" from W&M, W&L, George Mason, and Richmond that work at what you would refer to as "Richmond biglaw" (Hunton Williams, williams mullen, McGuire Woods, Troutman Sanders, Reed Smith, LeClair Ryan, Hirschler Fleischer, etc).

While I agree that ties and grades matter, as they do in any midsize cities, "sky high grades" from non UVA requirement is pretty offbase. Again, I go back to my original question: Are you currently working in Richmond as a lawyer or are you a speculating 1L, or worse, 0L?

silenttimer wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:

silenttimer wrote:

BruceWayne wrote:Very ties centric. Surprisingly grades centric. Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw. At UVA will depend on the strength of your ties and other softs. Still surprisingly difficult.

I'm just curious, are you currently working in Ricmond as a lawyer? Or are you just a speculating 1L? Your statement is not particularly true.

I'll bite; which part do you think is untrue? The part about caring about Virginia ties or the part about being grade focused? So in your experience ties aren't important and neither are grades?

"Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw." I know many people without "sky high grades" from W&M, W&L, George Mason, and Richmond that work at what you would refer to as "Richmond biglaw" (Hunton Williams, Williams Mullen, McGuire Woods, Troutman Sanders, Reed Smith, LeClair Ryan, Hirschler Fleischer, etc).

While I agree that ties and grades matter, as they do in any midsize cities, "sky high grades" from non UVA requirement is pretty offbase. Again, I go back to my original question: Are you currently working in Richmond as a lawyer or are you a speculating 1L, or worse, 0L?

I'm a UVA 2L with a firm job who knows several classmates with Richmond firm jobs. I applied to many (if not most) of them myself.

And let me guess, some of the people you know from those schools with Richmond biglaw are top 20 percent? Thus that's "proof" that one doesn't need sky high grades from those schools to get Richmond biglaw right? Since they weren't top 5 percent that means that you don't need very good grades from those schools right?

game6 wrote:

MrAnon wrote:Its no different than any other state, cities and small towns. UVA + several fungible law schools. There is nothing unique about its legal market. Most law school grads end up in smaller firms. I dont think W&L has much sway in the northern end of the state and I dont think GMU has much sway in the south.

Any evidence of this? Seems like a pretty arbitrary conclusion.

And W&L has the highest bar passage rate in VA.

What exactly is it that you want to hear? Prestigious firms all over the state are just in awe of W&L grads because of the high bar passage rate? wrong. firms fully expect their hires will pass the bar, they arent concerned with a particular schools bar passage rate when at the margins it is slightly better than UVA or W&M.

Is there any evidence that it is anything other than what I say? Again, its like any other state with large metro areas, medium metro areas, and small metro areas. Ties can play in, just like any other market. Again, there is no magic formula to Virginia.

MrAnon wrote:

game6 wrote:

MrAnon wrote:Its no different than any other state, cities and small towns. UVA + several fungible law schools. There is nothing unique about its legal market. Most law school grads end up in smaller firms. I dont think W&L has much sway in the northern end of the state and I dont think GMU has much sway in the south.

Any evidence of this? Seems like a pretty arbitrary conclusion.

And W&L has the highest bar passage rate in VA.

What exactly is it that you want to hear? Prestigious firms all over the state are just in awe of W&L grads because of the high bar passage rate? wrong. firms fully expect their hires will pass the bar, they arent concerned with a particular schools bar passage rate when at the margins it is slightly better than UVA or W&M.

Is there any evidence that it is anything other than what I say? Again, its like any other state with large metro areas, medium metro areas, and small metro areas. Ties can play in, just like any other market. Again, there is no magic formula to Virginia.

Apparently he and silenttimer do want to hear that. They're dreaming. It's damn hard to get major firm jobs in any market right now if you don't attend a top school, and even then it's still difficult. I'm sorry people don't want to face that reality but it's a fact. It's not all doom and gloom but it's not 2007 either folks.

Yeah don't get sucked into W&L because its a "tier 1" or whatever. You see the peer schools around it in the rankings? Ohio state? Univ of Washington? Would you consider attending them? None of these schools are legal powerhouses or a ticket to anything in particular. You shouldn't attend these schools unless you are from the area they service. they are not national schools.

BruceWayne wrote:

silenttimer wrote:

BruceWayne wrote: I'll bite; which part do you think is untrue? The part about caring about Virginia ties or the part about being grade focused? So in your experience ties aren't important and neither are grades?

"Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw." I know many people without "sky high grades" from W&M, W&L, George Mason, and Richmond that work at what you would refer to as "Richmond biglaw" (Hunton Williams, Williams Mullen, McGuire Woods, Troutman Sanders, Reed Smith, LeClair Ryan, Hirschler Fleischer, etc).

While I agree that ties and grades matter, as they do in any midsize cities, "sky high grades" from non UVA requirement is pretty offbase. Again, I go back to my original question: Are you currently working in Richmond as a lawyer or are you a speculating 1L, or worse, 0L?

I'm a UVA 2L with a firm job who knows several classmates with Richmond firm jobs. I applied to many (if not most) of them myself.

And let me guess, some of the people you know from those schools with Richmond biglaw are top 20 percent? Thus that's "proof" that one doesn't need sky high grades from those schools to get Richmond biglaw right? Since they weren't top 5 percent that means that you don't need very good grades from those schools right?

[/quote]


Take it for for it's worth, I currently practice in one of the Richmond Biglaws, and I would never shun a resume that comes accross my desk from a student that is top 50 percent from UVA, W&M, W&L, and Richmond. I've been involved in interview committees, and if we like two candidates from different schools, the conversation rarely centers on where the candidates went to school. Typically, the conversation centers on fit and needs. That same sentiment goes for most of my colleagues as well.

How does UVA place in DC?

silenttimer wrote:Take it for for it's worth, I currently practice in one of the Richmond Biglaws, and I would never shun a resume that comes accross my desk from a student that is top 50 percent from UVA, W&M, W&L, and Richmond. I've been involved in interview committees, and if we like two candidates from different schools, the conversation rarely centers on where the candidates went to school. Typically, the conversation centers on fit and needs. That same sentiment goes for most of my colleagues as well.

Then 1. You must be rejecting a ton of students from W&M, W&L, and Richmond for "fit". And 2. Accepting students who pull off a 3.3 or better from UVA (and only those that "fit" at that) hardly counters the sentiment that grades are very important to Richmond firms.

The other problem with what you're saying is that I, and many others, were rejected by Richmond firms at the preselect stage. Meaning that we were rejected purely off of grades/resume--we weren't even given the chance to interview to begin with. They didn't know (or obviously care) about how we "fit" into the firms. I know someone from Richmond (which their resume clearly showed) who got 1 preselect from Richmond firms at UVA OGI. Meanwhile people with 3.5+ GPAs, many of them not even from the state of Virginia, were loaded with preselects from Richmond firms.

How does UVA place in DC?

Fine if you are in the top 30 percent of the class. Excellent if you're top 10 percent.

BruceWayne wrote:

silenttimer wrote:

How does UVA place in DC?

Fine if you are in the top 30 percent of the class. Excellent if you're top 10 percent.

Top 10 percent it is

Br3v wrote:Top 10 percent it is

Welcome to ITE friend. In fairness the only schools that will give you a significantly better shot are HYS.

Take it for for it's worth, I currently practice in one of the Richmond Biglaws, and I would never shun a resume that comes accross my desk from a student that is top 50 percent from UVA, W&M, W&L, and Richmond. I've been involved in interview committees, and if we like two candidates from different schools, the conversation rarely centers on where the candidates went to school. Typically, the conversation centers on fit and needs. That same sentiment goes for most of my colleagues as well.

Misleading. You get top 50% resumes at your desk that your firm provides you with for Richmond kids? I doubt that. More like top 25% at worst. Anyway there are all kinds of screening mechanisms that prevent crappy resumes from TTT schools even reaching the members of the hiring committee, so yes, its likely no one would debate merits of certain schools in the meetings. It would look tacky.

Silenttimer, you graduated from a T30 in virginia in the top third, in 2010, and you work Richmond biglaw, correct?

Flappy Scribbleneck wrote:Silenttimer, you graduated from a T30 in virginia in the top third, in 2010, and you work Richmond biglaw, correct?

Please tell me this was sarcasm in response to my post. Because if it's not, you're making his response look pretty ridiculous.

BruceWayne wrote:Very ties centric. Surprisingly grades centric. Will need sky high grades from the non UVA schools to get Richmond biglaw. At UVA will depend on the strength of your ties and other softs. Still surprisingly difficult.

BruceWayne wrote:And let me guess, some of the people you know from those schools with Richmond biglaw are top 20 percent? Thus that's "proof" that one doesn't need sky high grades from those schools to get Richmond biglaw right? Since they weren't top 5 percent that means that you don't need very good grades from those schools right?

BruceWayne wrote:

Flappy Scribbleneck wrote:Silenttimer, you graduated from a T30 in Virginia in the top third, in 2010, and you work Richmond biglaw, correct?

Please tell me this was sarcasm in response to my post. Because if it's not, you're making his response look pretty ridiculous.

If Silenttimer is not from UVA, and is working is Richmond Biglaw, and he graduated in one of the worst legal hiring years in recent history, then that is evidence against your original comment. Unless you consider top third "sky high"?
FWIW, I am not sure either of you are totally correct. I am trying to get closer to the truth because I am interested in W&M, W&L

w&m over w&l unless w&l comes w/ full ride