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I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

a brain

rickfox wrote:I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

give it a coupe years, but yeah, the line is probably in the wrong place

because tight pants are actually a small but important part of rankings

rickfox wrote:I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

NLJ is not the whole ranking system. There's also numbers, and YP where NYU is closer to Columbia than Duke is to NYU. NYU's been over Chicago as recent as 2008 on USNews. The difference b/w NYU and Penn is small, however.

AriGoldButNicer wrote:

rickfox wrote:I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

NLJ is not the whole ranking system. There's also numbers, and YP where NYU is closer to Columbia than Duke is to NYU. NYU's been over Chicago as recent as 2008 on USNews. The difference b/w NYU and Penn is small, however.

I may be reading this wrong, but what does Duke have to do with your point?

Because the U.S. News formula resulted in NYU being ranked above Chicago for a number of years. That's pretty much it.

There are NLJ rankings for more than one year.

I know. I was surprised to hear it too.

I don't know too much about how to read employment stats, but shouldn't the tendency of PI-track people to choose NYU and biglawl-track people to choose C/C explain at least a little bit of the discrepancy?

NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89

crumpetsandtea wrote:I don't know too much about how to read employment stats, but shouldn't the tendency of PI-track people to choose NYU and biglawl-track people to choose C/C explain at least a little bit of the discrepancy?

NYU's public interest self-selection I think is way overblown. You'll notice that public-interest "self-selection" at NYU started blowing up in numbers when people were having a hard time getting jobs at firms (Class of 2009 at NYU had 10% of people spend their summer in public interest or government. That number for Class of 2011? Nearly 40%).

Helmholtz wrote:

crumpetsandtea wrote:I don't know too much about how to read employment stats, but shouldn't the tendency of PI-track people to choose NYU and biglawl-track people to choose C/C explain at least a little bit of the discrepancy?

NYU's public interest self-selection I think is way overblown. You'll notice that public-interest "self-selection" at NYU started blowing up in numbers when people were having a hard time getting jobs at firms.

Ahh, okay. Like I said, bit of a n00b with this whole 'knowing the intricacies of the legal job market' thing

Helmholtz wrote:NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89

I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't the case, just pointing out the absurdity of doing rankings on a 1 year basis.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the TLS conventional wisdom on grouping CCN together that pre-ITE they (including NYU) placed better into the more prestigious NYC firms than did the lower T14's?

its only applies to NYC firms

NYU is not considered any better than the rest of the T14's outside NYC. Several uber-prestigious non-NYC firms recruit only in HYSCC like Williams & Connolly and Susman Godfrey.

bk187 wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89

I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't the case, just pointing out the absurdity of doing rankings on a 1 year basis.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the TLS conventional wisdom on grouping CCN together that pre-ITE they (including NYU) placed better into the more prestigious NYC firms than did the lower T14's?

Yeah, I mean, I personally think there is a gap between CC and N, but also a gap between N and the lower schools.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

Granted, that's only one year. Also, Kirkland was not a V10 in 2006—that would have put a pretty big hit on Chicago's numbers since so many people at U of C choose Kirkland over a V10 firm (indeed, it does not take too long to find somebody at UChi who turned down Wachtell, Cravath, or SullCrom for Kirkland-Chicago; probably can't say the same thing for Columbia).

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... rk-ny.html

That probably does a good job of explaining why UChicago had significantly lower numbers than CLS for NYC-heavy V10s that year.

Helmholtz wrote:

bk187 wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89

I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't the case, just pointing out the absurdity of doing rankings on a 1 year basis.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the TLS conventional wisdom on grouping CCN together that pre-ITE they (including NYU) placed better into the more prestigious NYC firms than did the lower T14's?

Yeah, I mean, I personally think there is a gap between CC and N, but also a gap between N and the lower schools.

+1

Magnificent wrote:its only applies to NYC firms

NYU is not considered any better than the rest of the T14's outside NYC. Several uber-prestigious non-NYC firms recruit only in HYSCC like Williams & Connolly and Susman Godfrey.

Lol, what are you talking about?

I smell ass burgers

Grizz wrote:I smell ass burgers

Helmholtz wrote:Yeah, I mean, I personally think there is a gap between CC and N, but also a gap between N and the lower schools.

Makes sense.

There isn't a huge gap between MVP and NYU, but it's still big enough to justify the separation in mini-tiers. Let's put it this way: MVP + $$ (especially P, given its NYC placement) > NYU sticker

HeavenWood wrote:There isn't a huge gap between MVP and NYU, but it's still big enough to justify the separation in mini-tiers. Let's put it this way: MVP + $$ (especially P, given its NYC placement) > NYU sticker

Every time I hear you talk about P I picture you and Veyron having a j/o sesh together

Magnificent wrote:its only applies to NYC firms

NYU is not considered any better than the rest of the T14's outside NYC. Several uber-prestigious non-NYC firms recruit only in HYSCC like Williams & Connolly and Susman Godfrey.

W&C does not only recruit at HYSCC. There are currently more associates at the firm from both Penn and Michigan than from either of Chicago and Columbia. And there are more from UVA than all of the above schools combined.

Grizz wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:There isn't a huge gap between MVP and NYU, but it's still big enough to justify the separation in mini-tiers. Let's put it this way: MVP + $$ (especially P, given its NYC placement) > NYU sticker

Every time I hear you talk about P I picture you and Veyron having a j/o sesh together

lol I think my statement is reasonable. P has an edge over MV in NYC placement (just as M is better for Chicago and V better for DC). In an overall sense, I'd say all three are equally good.

I think columbia is going to fall behind UVA