Top Law Schools

So let's say you're shut out of the T14, but want to, ideally at least, maximize your Biglaw/A3 Clerk opportunities while not hanging a debt albatross around your neck.

I'm predicting that this cycle I'm going to have to choose between a T20 in my home market (where I grew up, went to undergrad) with IST and a nice scholarship or a T25 with little money. The kicker is that my home market doesn't seem to have much of a biglaw market, and places around 15%. The T25 places about 35% including clerkships.

Is it insane to pick the T25? Especially if you have no real ties to the T25's market? Let's say COA at the local school is 60k all in, as opposed to 160k at the other? Any thoughts?

minnbills wrote:I'm predicting that this cycle I'm going to have to choose between a T20 in my home market (where I grew up, went to undergrad) with IST and a nice scholarship or a T25 with little money. The kicker is that my home market doesn't seem to have much of a biglaw market, and places around 15%. The T25 places about 35% including clerkships.

T20? Did you mean T2?

Edit: I guess this scenario is possible, but it seems unlikely...

Gecko of Doom wrote:

minnbills wrote:I'm predicting that this cycle I'm going to have to choose between a T20 in my home market (where I grew up, went to undergrad) with IST and a nice scholarship or a T25 with little money. The kicker is that my home market doesn't seem to have much of a biglaw market, and places around 15%. The T25 places about 35% including clerkships.

T20? Did you mean T2?

No, he means WUSTL.

OnceUponAMemo wrote:

Gecko of Doom wrote:

minnbills wrote:I'm predicting that this cycle I'm going to have to choose between a T20 in my home market (where I grew up, went to undergrad) with IST and a nice scholarship or a T25 with little money. The kicker is that my home market doesn't seem to have much of a biglaw market, and places around 15%. The T25 places about 35% including clerkships.

T20? Did you mean T2?

No, he means WUSTL.

Makes more sense. But I seriously doubt his only/best options would be WUSTL at 60k COA and whatever T25 at 160k.

Also, IBT general TLS outcry of "wait until you actually have acceptances."

OnceUponAMemo wrote:

Gecko of Doom wrote:

minnbills wrote:I'm predicting that this cycle I'm going to have to choose between a T20 in my home market (where I grew up, went to undergrad) with IST and a nice scholarship or a T25 with little money. The kicker is that my home market doesn't seem to have much of a biglaw market, and places around 15%. The T25 places about 35% including clerkships.

T20? Did you mean T2?

No, he means WUSTL.

Maybe, I don't want to make it too easy for the adcomms patrolling around here.

The home market school loves high LSATs, and I'm a splitter. The T25 likes high GPAs but my LSAT is nicely above their 75th. Regardless, I'll be lucky to get any $ there at all given what I've seen on LSN and TLS stats. Obviously I could not get in, but I'm just trying to figure out what I should do if this scenario is presented to me.

EDIT: To clarify, the home market school is Top 20, whereas the other school is top 25.

minnbills wrote:Maybe, I don't want to make it too easy for the adcomms patrolling around here.

You don't want them to know that of the thousands of applicants they get, one is considering another school with less money? Before you even apply? You're not going to get much help with these vague scenarios.

Anyway, the home school is obviously Minnesota, and I think the T25 is BU. So my advice, based on that, is that if you don't mind working in Minnesota, I'd take that at much less cost. Keep in mind that biglaw placement for state schools like that isn't the most relevant number, because I'm sure lots of big Minnesota firms don't make the NLJ250 or other typical "biglaw" definitions, while still being among the top in their state. If you are dying to get out of Minnesota, I guess you could try BU, but I sure as heck wouldn't go there at sticker, and I'd definitely consider that a "debt albatross." Sure clerkships/biglaw might be better, but chances are still slim you'd get them, so I'd minimize debt.

No it's Minnesota vs who knows. NDLS used to place 35% NLJ+A3, but not anymore. I don't think there are any T25s that satisfy this other than BU (BC is technically 27, UIUC doesn't place that well, Fordham is not T25 either).

No do not leave your home market when your chances improve from (you think) 1.5 out of 10 to 3 out of 10. What I mean is that the whole thing about percentages is very speculative. You really have no idea how poorly these schools place into biglaw and they have every incentive to lie to make the numbers seem higher. Further your chances are not that much better at the school with supposedly better placement. That school is drawing a disproportionate number of students who like you think attending that school will give them a better chance at biglaw. If you really want to increase your chance at biglaw then retake LSAT, retake GPA, and reapply. Fighting around the margins at admissions wont help. Either you have it, or you dont.

MrAnon wrote:No do not leave your home market when your chances improve from (you think) 1.5 out of 10 to 3 out of 10. What I mean is that the whole thing about percentages is very speculative. You really have no idea how poorly these schools place into biglaw and they have every incentive to lie to make the numbers seem higher. Further your chances are not that much better at the school with supposedly better placement. That school is drawing a disproportionate number of students who like you think attending that school will give them a better chance at biglaw. If you really want to increase your chance at biglaw then retake LSAT, retake GPA, and reapply. Fighting around the margins at admissions wont help. Either you have it, or you dont.

Actually, your chances at NLJ250 from a school that places 30% are twice as good as at one that places 15%. This may come as a shock to you, however.

MrAnon wrote:No do not leave your home market when your chances improve from (you think) 1.5 out of 10 to 3 out of 10. What I mean is that the whole thing about percentages is very speculative. You really have no idea how poorly these schools place into biglaw and they have every incentive to lie to make the numbers seem higher. Further your chances are not that much better at the school with supposedly better placement. That school is drawing a disproportionate number of students who like you think attending that school will give them a better chance at biglaw. If you really want to increase your chance at biglaw then retake LSAT, retake GPA, and reapply. Fighting around the margins at admissions wont help. Either you have it, or you dont.

I'm referring to the NLJ stats, and law school transparency.

Actually, your chances at NLJ250 from a school that places 30% are twice as good as at one that places 15%. This may come as a shock to you, however.

BC placed 33% according to the NLJ in their latest report. That figure did seem a bit high. But couple that with about 3-5% A3 and I figured 35% would be a good marker. Place that against MN's 12% biglaw and 3% or so A3 and it just seems like a world of difference for employment prospects. Is this a fair assessment?

minnbills wrote:

MrAnon wrote:No do not leave your home market when your chances improve from (you think) 1.5 out of 10 to 3 out of 10. What I mean is that the whole thing about percentages is very speculative. You really have no idea how poorly these schools place into biglaw and they have every incentive to lie to make the numbers seem higher. Further your chances are not that much better at the school with supposedly better placement. That school is drawing a disproportionate number of students who like you think attending that school will give them a better chance at biglaw. If you really want to increase your chance at biglaw then retake LSAT, retake GPA, and reapply. Fighting around the margins at admissions wont help. Either you have it, or you dont.

I'm referring to the NLJ stats, and law school transparency.

Actually, your chances at NLJ250 from a school that places 30% are twice as good as at one that places 15%. This may come as a shock to you, however.

BC placed 33% according to the NLJ in their latest report. That figure did seem a bit high. But couple that with about 3-5% A3 and I figured 35% would be a good marker. Place that against MN's 12% biglaw and 3% or so A3 and it just seems like a world of difference for employment prospects. Is this a fair assessment?

Yes. BC and Minnesota are not peer schools. BC is definitely better and if the choice is between BC for less money and Minnesota for more money, that is a no brainer of epic proportions.

OP - you shouldn't leave WashU for BU/BC unless you want to practice in Boston. Go where you want to practice. And go cheaply (scholarships).

Aberzombie1892 wrote:OP - you shouldn't leave WashU for BU/BC unless you want to practice in Boston. Go where you want to practice. And go cheaply (scholarships).

It's Minnesota, not WashU.

ndirish2010 wrote:Yes. BC and Minnesota are not peer schools. BC is definitely better and if the choice is between BC for less money and Minnesota for more money, that is a no brainer of epic proportions.

OP is saying Minnesota would cost much less.

Dany wrote:

ndirish2010 wrote:Yes. BC and Minnesota are not peer schools. BC is definitely better and if the choice is between BC for less money and Minnesota for more money, that is a no brainer of epic proportions.

OP is saying Minnesota would cost much less.

Exactly. There are a lot of assumtions here- but I'm guessing I'm going to have to choose between 60k COA at UMN (just going off IST and schollys from LSN) and near sticker at BC/BU.

minnbills wrote:

Dany wrote:

ndirish2010 wrote:Yes. BC and Minnesota are not peer schools. BC is definitely better and if the choice is between BC for less money and Minnesota for more money, that is a no brainer of epic proportions.

OP is saying Minnesota would cost much less.

Exactly. There are a lot of assumtions here- but I'm guessing I'm going to have to choose between 60k COA at UMN (just going off IST and schollys from LSN) and near sticker at BC/BU.

Hypotheticals like this are silly IMHO. Apply and see what happens.

Oh, I misread. In that case, I mean I don't think BC/BU are worth sticker but if you want to take a shot at biglaw...