Michigan State or Syracuse (waitlist Miami and Indiana) Forum

[drewski2011]

Hey guys just looking for some advice here. I am a canadian hopeful law student. I am accepted at Michigan State and Syracuse and at this point am leaning towards MSU. It is cheaper ($32,000 vs $44,000) and has a dual law program with Ottawa where I can get my canadian law degree after 2 years at MSU. Syracuse is attractive because of the dual degree with the maxwell school, but it is not forsure and is quite competitive. Being able to practice in NY would be attractive to Toronto law firms, but the ability to come back to canada and go to ottawa is why I am leaning towards MSU. Ottawa is a fairly decent law school in canada.

I am also on the waitlist at Miami and Indy law also so I am just weighing all my options at this point. Retaking the LSAT and taking a year off to reapply isn't in the cards so I have to go with what I have here. I am hoping for Miami and don't know if I will switch to indy if I get in there.

My GPA was a 3.5 and LSAT was a 155.
Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[CanadianWolf]

MSU/Ottawa dual degree is the better option since you want to practice in Canada.

[FeelTheHeat]

MSU/Ottawa dual degree is the better option since you want to practice in Canada.

Yup. Given your career aspirations, I'd say that is the better choice.

Strictly out of curiosity, how come you cannot retake and reapply? Your GPA isn't half bad.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: It would be helpful to other posters if you could explain the dual degree process in brief fashion. For example, do you need to apply to both law schools ? If so, have you been accepted to Ottawa ? Also, could you list the other US/Canada dual degree programs ? I know that Detroit-Mercy has a program, for example. Thanks !

[RebelRebel]

I'm in a similar situation since I'm Canadian and my grades are insufficient to attend most Canadian schools barring perhaps Windsor, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and TRU because Canadian schools are very GPA-centric.

The MSU program seems extremely appealing to me as well. @ Canadian Wolf, from my understanding you do not have to be accepted to both schools from the onset. I doubt that anyone that has gotten into Ottawa right away would consider this program given the significantly higher tuition and cost of living and also since even with a substantial scholarship, there is not guarantee of keeping it or of being above median to secure admission into Ottawa's program.

Rather, you must be in the top half of the class after 1L to apply for the joint program which you would commence in your third year.

I would love to hear from some TLSers that have successfully transferred and those that have graduated. At the end of the day, it comes down to $$. For us Canadians who are not admissible for the federal loans that US citizens get, it is a huge gamble...

[drewski2011]

Basically, MSU has a dual degree option with Ottawa but you have to apply for it after first year. You have to be in the top 50% of the first year class to apply and not many people at MSU do apply for it according to the admission office.
Just need to keep my marks up and I think I'll be able to do it. Ottawa does screen candidates.

Windsor has a dual law program with mercy and I am on the waitlist at windsor. To be honest, the MSU/Ottawa is more appealing.

Some personal reasons and money concerns are the main reason for me not reapplying. I feel like I could rewrite the LSAT and do a lot better, but I don't think for me anyway that going to a better ranked school will improve my job opportunities down the road. I have worked with many lawyers and think I could get a good job somewhere regardless of my education.

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys really appreciate it.

[RebelRebel]

Has anyone received a scholarship at MSU and has any idea of the stipulations required to keep it?

[drewski2011]

I didn't recieve one and am not sure. They said they would be willing to give me some financial assistance if I was to keep a gpa above 3.6.

Just wondering if you guys would jump to the university of miami or indiana (indianapolis) over MSU if you got accepted from the waitlist. I can always come back to canada and take a few months to get certified to write the bar in canada so it isn't that bad to come back. Just wondering what you guys think. Thanks!

[CanadianWolf]

MSU awards a lot of high dollar scholarships. Medians are 157 & 3.50--3.55. If above both medians, then a strong chance at one of thirty-eight full tuition & fees scholarships, in addition to many more partial awards. I don't know the stipulations, if any, to maintain MSU law scholarships.

[RebelRebel]

From what I have read on lawstudents.ca, the NCA accreditation is very long and complicated. The prestige of the US school you'll be attending, if it's not a top school, won't have much importance. Don't forget that whereas our US colleagues can just take the bar and practice after finishing their degree, we will have to compete for clerkships with those that graduated from Cdn institutions.

So basically, that means doing a 3 year degree, waiting another year to get NCA accreditation that involves numerous exams, more studying and most importantly - not earning and money and then clerking.

I personally would not look at either of those schools if you're not looking at potentially settling down in those markets.

I would only look at schools that either
- Provide a gateway to the Canadian market through a joint degree or a semester abroad (UMaine has a deal with Dalhousie I think...)
- Schools that limit your cost of attendance
- Schools that have a market that you can see yourself staying in for a few years.

[drewski2011]

Thanks RebelRebel. I think I could see myself staying in Miami for a bit, but ya the whole process of coming back would probably be too hassles. I think I am going to stick with MSU and push for the dual with Ottawa.

[RebelRebel]

Given the lack of jobs and exaggerated tuition, I think it would be a smart move for more US law schools to solicit joint programs with Canadian schools... too bad.

Any news from Windsor?

[drewski2011]

No not yet. I am on a "priority list" and if I was to get in, It would be later so I am just going for MSU/ottawa.

[RebelRebel]

To Drewski2011

If you are attending MSU this year, being a Cdn citizen, may I ask what avenues are open to you to finance the education? This has been my biggest concern and the one that will determine which schools I will apply to and or attend.

Thanks