Top Law Schools

I figured I'd give this a shot. I have to make a final decision, and just can't do it. All good schools, and all have their pros and cons. I like Iowa and Wisconsin, but not very familiar with the Midwest. I know the West well, and will probably want to practice here, but not trying to limit myself. Any advice you all can offer?

What are the COAs? Stips? What do you want to do?

Arizona.

Sorry duh! Not 100% sure on stipulations from Iowa. Arizona is "good academic standing", and Colorado is minimum 2.9. Mostly interested in public interest at this point. Where I practice isn't really a hangup for me. I'd probably like to stay in the West, but have no problem working elsewhere if need be.

I've been able to visit Tucson and Boulder. Both were nice, though Boulder wins in the natural beauty and overall friendliness departments. Arizona wins on the weather front, though I'm not a fan of the State's sometimes wacky politics.

Thanks for all the votes so far. It's helping to narrow things down.

Zona and don't look back.

uzpakalis wrote:Zona and don't look back.

Out of curiosity, what makes you feel this way? I've visited both schools, so I know what I liked and didn't. Just wondering what your reasoning is.

Since you're interested in working in public interest, have you looked into the differences between LRAPs at the schools?

Depends upon where in the West you intend to practice. Colorado is a bit more portable than Arizona. Do you have a weather preference ?

quixotical wrote:Since you're interested in working in public interest, have you looked into the differences between LRAPs at the schools?

I have. Colorado's is definitely more liberal, and far broader in scope. They allow for any government job, as well as pretty much any job with a nonprofit. Salary cap is $55,000/year. I can't recall the benefit off the top of my head, but it was somewhere in the range of $8000/year.

Arizona's is actually administered through an organization that assists graduates from all 3 of Arizona's law schools. The salary cap is higher ($65,000/year) as is the benefit ($10,000/year), but it is far more restrictive in nature. LRAP is not available to those working government jobs, and they have a list of specific nonprofits for whom you can work in order to qualify for assistance.

CanadianWolf wrote:Depends upon where in the West you intend to practice. Colorado is a bit more portable than Arizona. Do you have a weather preference ?

No real weather preference. I currently live in an area with weather similar to Boulder's, so I'm used to that, but weather isn't necessarily a make or break thing for me. With respect to where I intend to practice, if not in each school's respective State, UT is the other State in which I'd be most likely to practice.

Arizona's LRAP stips are off-putting. I would go with Colorado. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe Colorado's name would carry more weight in Utah than Arizona's would.

Good luck!

quixotical wrote:Arizona's LRAP stips are off-putting. I would go with Colorado. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe Colorado's name would carry more weight in Utah than Arizona's would.

Good luck!

Probably the same in Utah.

I voted AZ because I think it would be easier for you to find a job in the PHX legal market than in CO. Honestly, both are good choices. It depends on where you want to live. If you live in boulder you will be surrounded by bong smoke almost 24/7...just sayin.

I go to Colorado, and while I have no incentive to sell you on it, I figured I'd weigh in.

The primary benefits from my perspective are the faculty and class size. Many of the professors here are very notable in their fields, and they seem to genuinely enjoy teaching to boot. This is particularly true in regards to environmental law and, to a lesser extent, technology-focused IP law (the city has a burgeoning tech startup scene and the law school is trying to tap into that). I think Boulder has a way of attracting faculty who could be, and in several cases have been, at more highly regarded schools but are looking for a good place to raise a family. The small class size ensures that you'll have actual access to the faculty. None of this, of course, will necessarily translate to a job, but know that you'll learn from some really wonderful professors and get a solid education.

I'd say the primary drawback is Boulder itself. Some people love it, but your people options will basically be limited to Phish-head frat boys or Pottery Barn hippies, with very little in between. If you're willing to make a bit of a commute, though, you can live in Denver, which I think has more to offer.

Just my bit. Good luck with your decision.

Probably Colorado - a bit more portable within the West; little competition from other Colorado schools (AZ has graduates from both UA and ASU); significantly-sized markets in Denver, Salt Lake, etc.; no obnoxious LRAP limits. Certainly best for CO and probably UT and anywhere to the north (MT, WY, ID).

Arizona would make sense if you were fairly certain you wanted to practice in AZ. (Maybe in NM too, but I wouldn't know).

Compare the difficulty of acquiring in-state tuition in each.

Wisconsin and Iowa would be silly if you like the West & want to practice there, although both are certainly well-regarded.

Arizona. I love Tucson (it's not nearly as nutty as the Valley of the Sun), the State is not overlawyered like Colorado is, and the Arizona economy will eventually get back on track.

I would pick Colorado, but that's just because I personally would much rather live in Colorado than Arizona. This choice really comes down to where you would prefer working.

Boulder is much different than Tucson.

In the past few years, Forbes ranked Boulder, Colorado as the "most/highest educated city in the US". A year or two later, Forbes ranked Boulder as the "smartest city in America". Real estate, however, is quite expensive in Boulder due to high incomes & mandatory greenspace building limitations. Lots of nice homes in the $1,500,000 area. Many are much more expensive. Most affordable way to live in Boulder is as a student. Lots of high tech companies.

Tuscon is surprisingly small & isolated. Boulder is about 30 minutes or so from Denver with frequent, low cost express buses.
In my experience, people either love or hate Tuscon. Boulder seems to be popular with everyone whom I know. Most never want to leave & do so primarily for work or due to high cost of living once college years end.

Applications to Colorado Law were up over 12% in this down year. May be the biggest increase among tier one law schools which are averaging about an 11% decline in applications.

I think going with UArizona is TCR, unless you have a preference for living in Colorado. UArizona is giving you more money, has easier GPA stips for the scholly, and is currently the objectively higher-ranked school by US News (although they are in fact peer schools, and it may be the case the UColorado is slightly harder to get into). Also, I don't know that there is any objective data supporting the claim of one of the above posters that UColorado has more regional reach than UArizona. I suspect it may be harder to get a job in Arizona from UColorado than in Colorado from UArizona. This year UArizona is participating in off-campus OCI in Denver and does place some students in Colorado. Also, a considerable percentage of UArizona students end up in CA each year, and I'm not sure the same can be said of UColorado (I've seen this claim of UArizona having a considerable portion of grads who have placed in CA disputed by citing to small numbers of UArizona grads at CA firms, but the fact is that UArizona has very small class sizes). The placement issue is just my speculation and could definitely be wrong though, so if anyone can refute with actual data I be interested to see it.

That said, I personally loved living in Boulder, and I have mixed feelings about Tucson (not crazy about it). Yet the weather in Tucson is pretty hard to beat IMO, unless you mind the heat.

I wouldn't go with Iowa or Wisconsin unless you prefer mid-west over mountain west. But it is true that both those schools are stronger than either UArizona or UColorado, so if money is no issue for you and you don't mind the potential of living in a mid-west state (if you don't do well enough to get biglaw in NYC etc) then Iowa or Wisconsin could also be good choices.


**EDIT: Managed to miss before that you have $$ at Iowa. In that case, Iowa is looking pretty good to me, unless you are almost certain you want to end up in the Mountain West. If you want CA (particularly southern CA), then I would guess that Iowa and UArizona may give you similar chances, but UArizona probably would actually probably have a slight edge IMO. That said, the CA market is horrible, so if you want CA then you would probably need to do quite well at either of those schools to have a reasonable shot at a legal job in southern CA. Also, if CA is in fact your goal (which you haven't said it is, but you did mention interest in being in the 'west'), CA schools would probably be the best option.

quixotical wrote:Arizona's LRAP stips are off-putting. I would go with Colorado. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe Colorado's name would carry more weight in Utah than Arizona's would.

Good luck!

Wait what? Last I checked Arizona doesn't have LRAP (which would in fact make it off-putting if someone was set on it lol). There is a private organization that essentially functions as an LRAP for UArizona students if they have certain positions after graduation though, so maybe this is what you are talking about. Or are you referring to an ASU LRAP program?

Lawquacious wrote:

quixotical wrote:Arizona's LRAP stips are off-putting. I would go with Colorado. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe Colorado's name would carry more weight in Utah than Arizona's would.

Good luck!

Wait what? Last I checked Arizona doesn't have LRAP (which would in fact make it off-putting if someone was set on it lol). There is a private organization though that essentially functions as an LRAP for UArizona students if they have certain positions after graduation though, so maybe this is what you are talking about. Or are you referring to an ASU LRAP program?

Zaritsi wrote: Colorado's is definitely more liberal, and far broader in scope. They allow for any government job, as well as pretty much any job with a nonprofit. Salary cap is $55,000/year. I can't recall the benefit off the top of my head, but it was somewhere in the range of $8000/year.

Arizona's is actually administered through an organization that assists graduates from all 3 of Arizona's law schools. The salary cap is higher ($65,000/year) as is the benefit ($10,000/year), but it is far more restrictive in nature. LRAP is not available to those working government jobs, and they have a list of specific nonprofits for whom you can work in order to qualify for assistance.

Since you prefer to practice in the West, Iowa & Wisconsin are not your top two choices. It's between Colorado & Arizona. (Unless, of course, by "the West" you were referring to western Iowa.)

quixotical wrote:

Lawquacious wrote:

quixotical wrote:Arizona's LRAP stips are off-putting. I would go with Colorado. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also believe Colorado's name would carry more weight in Utah than Arizona's would.

Good luck!

Wait what? Last I checked Arizona doesn't have LRAP (which would in fact make it off-putting if someone was set on it lol). There is a private organization though that essentially functions as an LRAP for UArizona students if they have certain positions after graduation though, so maybe this is what you are talking about. Or are you referring to an ASU LRAP program?

Zaritsi wrote: Colorado's is definitely more liberal, and far broader in scope. They allow for any government job, as well as pretty much any job with a nonprofit. Salary cap is $55,000/year. I can't recall the benefit off the top of my head, but it was somewhere in the range of $8000/year.

Arizona's is actually administered through an organization that assists graduates from all 3 of Arizona's law schools. The salary cap is higher ($65,000/year) as is the benefit ($10,000/year), but it is far more restrictive in nature. LRAP is not available to those working government jobs, and they have a list of specific nonprofits for whom you can work in order to qualify for assistance.

Got it thx- I don't always read everything in threads as carefully as I prob should before posting. The fact that the school doesn't administer it's own LRAP could probably also cause concern--in addition to any narrow stips--though I don't know that the program is really any less stable than any other LRAP programs because of that.

A general principle should probably be don't go to UW unless you already live in WI or got a scholly offer. People who live in WI who are admitted here get a ridiculous bonus for residency. Also, don't go to UW or Iowa if you don't want to work in Wisconsin or Iowa.

edit: obv this is a little bit of an exagggeration but mostly true.

An Arizona law degree has to be portable due to the scarcity of jobs in Tuscon. My best guess is that most Arizona grads try for SoCal--and face fierce competition--or Phoenix & compete with ASU & Colorado grads.

But, if you want to try desert living, then 3 years at Arizona is a great opportunity.

OP: You have four very interesting options. Wisconsin is a great place to live & Iowa City is nothing like the rest of Iowa.

CanadianWolf wrote:Wisconsin is a great place to live

Could you possibly elaborate this?