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What a week for me...i was accepted to the part time programs at Santa Clara, Southwestern and McGeorge. I am an LA boy living in LA a hoping to practice in LA, so Southwestern is my front runner, but Santa Clara and McGeorge are so higher ranked! Anyone have any thoughts? Is a degree from Santa Clara or McGeorge mobile to Southern Cali? I want to work in the entertainment industry and Ive heard how good Southwestern is, but would a degree from Santa Clara be better? Any thoughts is appreciated

U Pacific doesnt even report employment at graduation and Santa Clara is lower than Southwestern. Regardless, all of these schools are fairly poor choices in California. You really need some excellent numbers to remain in that state, otherwise you should be relocating. If I had to choose, its Southwestern. However, you better have some serious legal connections or plan on going into public service/interest.

EDIT - Just looked at tuition prices...wow. You need to think long and hard, write out the numbers and CALCULATE THE INTEREST! This J.D. is going to cost you some serious cash with little return.

SCU is an atrocious idea considering it only places about 1/4 of its grads into full time lawyer jobs. For McGeorge it is about 1/2. Rankings don't really mean anything after the top 20 or so schools so you really should ignore it.

Of all these Southwestern is your best option since it is in the area you want to work in and I really hope that you have a job that can cover a decent amount of your tuition considering tuition alone is going to run $100,000 over 4 years, not to mention that you will be paying cost of living for that time as well so you will probably end up close to $200,000 in debt.

Obligatorily I have to say that retaking and reapplying is usually a far better idea than going to a low ranked school without a scholarship.

None of the above.

thanks for your replies....i wish retaking the lsat was an option but this is my 2nd application cycle and im going to go with one of these choices no matter what. I am leaning to SW because of their network in LA....any Santa Clara students on here at all have any opinions?

justright157 wrote:thanks for your replies....i wish retaking the lsat was an option but this is my 2nd application cycle and im going to go with one of these choices no matter what. I am leaning to SW because of their network in LA....any Santa Clara students on here at all have any opinions?

Not to beat it into the ground, but the "Credentials + FT/PT Breakdown" graph here (--LinkRemoved--) is all you really need to know about SCU.

bk187 wrote:

justright157 wrote:thanks for your replies....i wish retaking the lsat was an option but this is my 2nd application cycle and im going to go with one of these choices no matter what. I am leaning to SW because of their network in LA....any Santa Clara students on here at all have any opinions?

Not to beat it into the ground, but the "Credentials + FT/PT Breakdown" graph here (--LinkRemoved--) is all you really need to know about SCU.

Whoa. 25% known to be employed full time. In 2009. Yikes, dude.

DON'T GO TO SANTA CLARA! I go there now on a full ride and am transferring out!!!!

Horrible administration and even worse career services.

CindyLarson84 wrote:DON'T GO TO SANTA CLARA! I go there now on a full ride and am transferring out!!!!

Horrible administration and even worse career services.

"Your law degree will, I assure you, give you the power to insure access to justice for all," commencement speaker, retired State Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno, observed.

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_18112356

Please do yourself a favor and do not go to any of these schools.

Z3RO wrote:

bk187 wrote:

justright157 wrote:thanks for your replies....i wish retaking the lsat was an option but this is my 2nd application cycle and im going to go with one of these choices no matter what. I am leaning to SW because of their network in LA....any Santa Clara students on here at all have any opinions?

Not to beat it into the ground, but the "Credentials + FT/PT Breakdown" graph here (--LinkRemoved--) is all you really need to know about SCU.

Whoa. 25% known to be employed full time. In 2009. Yikes, dude.

I do not want to argue to much with these stats, but SCU posted this for its 2010 stats:

http://law.scu.edu/careers/employment-data-2010.cfm


So there could be some improvement there, but time will only tell and there is that entire fog of self reported stats.

I have worked with a lot of SF Bay Area legal recruiters and they have all told me that the Bay Area legal market was hit super hard in 2007-2009 and recovery is beginning, but it has been slow.

I heard a great anecdote tonight. UC Hastings grad top 10% graduates in 2008. 2011 gets job in big law after three years of nothing.

Once again I am not arguing with stats everything is just very chaotic in CA. But I will be going to SCU unless I get into USD.

Go to Southwestern. You'll have a better chance of landing a socal job coming from SW compared to SCU. Also, you have a better chance of succeeding at SW and possibly transferring to Loyola. If you don't end up doing well at SW then you're still in the market you want to be in.

Norwood wrote:If you don't end up doing well at SW then you won't get a legal job.

FTFY.

jarofsoup wrote:I do not want to argue to much with these stats, but SCU posted this for its 2010 stats:

http://law.scu.edu/careers/employment-data-2010.cfm

This is fair to set up as a counterpoint but I think that the major way they are fudging the picture is by the people who don't respond. For example they have a class of 306 but only 186 respond to the geography question (which leads me to believe that about 120 of the class either isn't responding or is hiding a lot of their info). Only 53 report salary info, only 65 reporting temporary/permanent, only 62 reporting ft/pt, only 200 reported JD requirements, etc, etc.

I mean the amount we can glean from their employment data is shockingly low. What portion of their class is actually in full time work? Less than 1/6. What portion of their class is in JD required jobs? About 1/2. To me, the data on their website is actually more horrifying than the LST data once you actually parse it down to what it really means.

bk187 wrote:

jarofsoup wrote:I do not want to argue to much with these stats, but SCU posted this for its 2010 stats:

http://law.scu.edu/careers/employment-data-2010.cfm

This is fair to set up as a counterpoint but I think that the major way they are fudging the picture is by the people who don't respond. For example they have a class of 306 but only 186 respond to the geography question (which leads me to believe that about 120 of the class either isn't responding or is hiding a lot of their info). Only 53 report salary info, only 65 reporting temporary/permanent, only 62 reporting ft/pt, only 200 reported JD requirements, etc, etc.

I mean the amount we can glean from their employment data is shockingly low. What portion of their class is actually in full time work? Less than 1/6. What portion of their class is in JD required jobs? About 1/2. To me, the data on their website is actually more horrifying than the LST data once you actually parse it down to what it really means.

I think I am generally confused about Cali T2 schools job prospects. Are any of them particularly good? USD is higher ranked but the employment out look does not look all that snazzy either..

If you are going to law school in California and it's at a school ranked lower than Hastings/Davis, don't do it.

jarofsoup wrote:
I think I am generally confused about Cali T2 schools job prospects. Are any of them particularly good? USD is higher ranked but the employment out look does not look all that snazzy either..

USF and SCU are definitely the worst of the bunch, due to placing in a small, impacted market that is struggling harder than most from the economy. USD is likely only slightly better but struggles because its market is so teensy. Loyola and Pepperdine are the only ones worth a damn (meaning they place like decent T2s rather than abysmal TTTs). However they have stringent top 1/3 scholarship stipulations that they never let go of, meaning that they are still really risky propositions even with a scholarship.

CA is just not the place to be to either attend law school or try to find a legal job. Why must I love this state so much?

ndirish2010 wrote:If you are going to law school in California and it's at a school ranked lower than Hastings/Davis, don't do it.

Not true...if you are going to law school in California and it's at a school ranked lower than LLS/Pepperdine/USD...dont do it. I know plenty of people who have done well from these schools (recently and more senior Alumni) but behind these schools it's gonna be a struggle. Good luck man, my advice is to go to Southwestern and kill it there. Top 10% and transfer if you can. It's only one year of your life, so dont see the light of day and make it you're job to transfer up for 2L OCI. It can be done, you just have to reallllly want it.

justright157 wrote:What a week for me...i was accepted to the part time programs at Santa Clara, Southwestern and McGeorge. I am an LA boy living in LA a hoping to practice in LA, so Southwestern is my front runner, but Santa Clara and McGeorge are so higher ranked! Anyone have any thoughts? Is a degree from Santa Clara or McGeorge mobile to Southern Cali? I want to work in the entertainment industry and Ive heard how good Southwestern is, but would a degree from Santa Clara be better? Any thoughts is appreciated

Flame... But if not, don't go to any of these schools.

bk187 wrote:

jarofsoup wrote:
I think I am generally confused about Cali T2 schools job prospects. Are any of them particularly good? USD is higher ranked but the employment out look does not look all that snazzy either..

USF and SCU are definitely the worst of the bunch, due to placing in a small, impacted market that is struggling harder than most from the economy. USD is likely only slightly better but struggles because its market is so teensy. Loyola and Pepperdine are the only ones worth a damn (meaning they place like decent T2s rather than abysmal TTTs). However they have stringent top 1/3 scholarship stipulations that they never let go of, meaning that they are still really risky propositions even with a scholarship.

CA is just not the place to be to either attend law school or try to find a legal job. Why must I love this state so much?

The natural beauty, cleaner air in norcal is hard to give up, and good weather.

Personally I turned down school in NYC because of the humid summers and having some respiratory problems in that kind of weather makes it hard for me to function. That being said if I got accepted to a school that was ranked higher than Brooklyn(like Fordham, NYU...etc.) I would have sucked it up. Also cost of living in NYC and moving to NYC would have added over 100k to the total cost of attending school.

I was told by a lawyer that I should focus on Trust and Estates in CA( The most unsexy practice I know) because of the high CA population and the huge amount of baby boomers living here. I dont want to do probate or any of that crap, but hopefully a lot of lawyers will be baby boomers and will be retiring in the next 10 years.

I would love to be in a position to transfer into Hastings(they even accept part time students). But you can never plan on transferring(I know the TSL mantra, but everyone deep down is thinking that they are going to do great and be able to transfer)

I think transferring from SCU to Hastings would not be impossible. Pepperdine has the strangest freaking application out there with the praise jesus thing...

Pretty much echoing that (1) going to any of these schools without $ is a bad idea, but (2) if you must, then pick Southwestern, because at least it's in the market where you want to work.