PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal?? Forum

[lawschoolchamp]

donlocke wrote:
I'm here humbly asking for just a few facts. Not too much to ask, is it?


I already gave you a serious answer.

bk187 wrote:
donlocke wrote:
Edited to add: Please save your "retake the lsat" "don't go to either one of these schools" comments. One of these schools is happening. Please just help me make this difficult decision.


These are really your only options. One of the schools you are looking at places less than half its class into full time lawyer jobs and the other won't say how many of their grads get full time lawyer jobs (source: --LinkRemoved--). You would be taking on over a hundred thousand dollars in debt to go to a school where you have, at best a 50/50 chance of being a full time lawyer. This doesn't even get into the fact that you will have a very very hard time paying off your debt with the type of salaries that grads from these schools get.

You really need to either retake the LSAT or reconsider law school. Right now, the options you have are not reasonable or financially feasible. Would you take on a bunch of debt for a car if you would have a very low chance of paying it off? Of course you wouldn't and that is why you shouldn't go to these schools.


If you're wondering why nobody will tell you one or the other it is because they are both bad choices and that is a fact. It would be like someone asking "hey, should I kill myself with a pistol or a shotgun?" Of course you're going to tell that person "you shouldn't kill yourself" rather than saying "you should go with the pistol because it's less messy than the shotgun."

Why is this such a common response? While it seems many people do not agree with OP considering either of the two law schools I'm beginning to think these are just the ones that have enough time on their hands and care enough to comment. Why do they care so much? They are such goodhearted people and they feel obligated to give their advice... Gimme a break.

These negative and redundant comments like retake or shoot yourself with a shotgun act like they are just trying to be helpful, but they are played out, idiotic, disrespectful and demeaning.

Law school A or B?

-Shoot yourself in the head.


Really?

[ndirish2010]

What else are we supposed to do when the thread title asks us to decide between two ways to waste 3 years and lots of $$$. I can't honestly recommend either of these schools, that would be unconscionable.

[rangers0412]

If OP's resorting to strangers on the internet to make his decision for him he's already screwed. No need to rub it in.

[ndirish2010]

If OP's resorting to strangers on the internet to make his decision for him he's already screwed. No need to rub it in.

Not necessarily. A choice thread does not mean that a poster is screwed. Only when that choice thread is between Nova Southeastern and Florida Coastal.

[gwuorbust]

If OP's resorting to strangers on the internet to make his decision for him he's already screwed. No need to rub it in.

rubbing it is? I hear Florida Coastal's International Seagull Clinic has really taken off!!!

[lawschoolchamp]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

[ndirish2010]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

Wow, that was hilarious.

[kapachino]

Neither. They're both horrible. But, if you're going to ignore the advice you're given...Nova is less horrible.

[Grizz]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

cool

[flcath]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

I confess to spending almost a full minute of my time scouring this thread for some type of context.

[Ersatz Haderach]

If OP wants to go to law school in an over-saturated Florida market crammed full of schools ranked higher than these and with truly atrocious attrition rates, that's his business. Hope you have a scholarship. God help you if you're doing it on loans.

The same method for picking schools applies to these as any other non-T14:

• Talk to alumni in the area
  Decide if you want to work in that school's home market, if you were to have no other choice
  Identify employers with large numbers of alumni through Martindale; decide if you would like working at any of these places; cold email a few recent grads
  Communicate with current students and faculty
  Ignore published employment statistics from the schools in question
  Compare overall cost of attendance vs. your financial resources, DO NOT GO DEEP INTO DEBT
  Do not assume you can transfer up

And then decide. Odds are there are real Floridians, even alumni, on here. Hopefully they will contact you individually.

[Ersatz Haderach]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

What, are you white knighting for educational institutions that fail upwards of 30% of their students? (http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf) Why waste your time on private law schools? They have Deans for that. Go help the Florida public schools.

By the way, the proper answer does appear to be Nova Southeastern, for whatever it's worth. That's old info in that composite chart, though.

[Kilpatrick]

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better somebody creates an account just to bring it back from the dead with a post whining about how mean TLS is

[lawschoolchamp]

Hey, I'm from Jacksonville...not to be a douche or anything but I thought you should also take into account your scholarship from Florida Coastal isn't as good as you think. Is there a GPA requirement attached to it? If so, the schools are probably counting on many people to lose their aid. Even if that GPA looks easy to attain, it' different at every school because your grades are based on a curve in law school.
You may want to take a look at this article for details: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... rants.html

This

If OP wants to go to law school in an over-saturated Florida market crammed full of schools ranked higher than these and with truly atrocious attrition rates, that's his business. Hope you have a scholarship. God help you if you're doing it on loans.

The same method for picking schools applies to these as any other non-T14:

• Talk to alumni in the area
  Decide if you want to work in that school's home market, if you were to have no other choice
  Identify employers with large numbers of alumni through Martindale; decide if you would like working at any of these places; cold email a few recent grads
  Communicate with current students and faculty
  Ignore published employment statistics from the schools in question
  Compare overall cost of attendance vs. your financial resources, DO NOT GO DEEP INTO DEBT
  Do not assume you can transfer up

And then decide. Odds are there are real Floridians, even alumni, on here. Hopefully they will contact you individually.

Especially This

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

What, are you white knighting for educational institutions that fail upwards of 30% of their students? (http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf) Why waste your time on private law schools? They have Deans for that. Go help the Florida public schools.

By the way, the proper answer does appear to be Nova Southeastern, for whatever it's worth. That's old info in that composite chart, though.

This

And any other valuable/constructive comments I may have missed.



Thank you.

[flcath]

Chill out, brah.

[lawschoolchamp]

Chill out, brah.

pshhh

[FeelTheHeat]

People not from Florida cannot ever appreciate what it's like to know so, so many people who go to our beautiful state's many toilet law schools.

Off the top of my head (no google, I promise):
*UF
*FSU
*UM
*Stetson
*Fla. Coastal
*Barry
*Ave Maria
*FAMU
*FIU
*Nova
*FAU (not sure; wouldn't surprise me)

FTFYBro

[lawschoolchamp]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

What, are you white knighting for educational institutions that fail upwards of 30% of their students? (http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf) Why waste your time on private law schools? They have Deans for that. Go help the Florida public schools.

By the way, the proper answer does appear to be Nova Southeastern, for whatever it's worth. That's old info in that composite chart, though.

Just a rant because these comments were starting to piss me off that's all. Plus, I really think these people asking about 4th tier schools are looking for real advice. And whatever their chances are at succeeding in life, I'm pretty sure they are not going to waste their time considering the b.s. comments about studying seagulls instead of going to law school.

[flcath]

People not from Florida cannot ever appreciate what it's like to know so, so many people who go to our beautiful state's many toilet law schools.

Off the top of my head (no google, I promise):
*UF
*FSU
*UM
*Stetson
*Fla. Coastal
*Barry
*Ave Maria
*FAMU
*FIU
*Nova
*FAU (not sure; wouldn't surprise me)

FTFYBro

Anyone ever verify if FAU (which--fun fact here--stands for "Florida Atlantic University") has a law school?

[flcath]

knock knock
who's there?
go fuck yourselves

What, are you white knighting for educational institutions that fail upwards of 30% of their students? (http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf) Why waste your time on private law schools? They have Deans for that. Go help the Florida public schools.

By the way, the proper answer does appear to be Nova Southeastern, for whatever it's worth. That's old info in that composite chart, though.

Just a rant because these comments were starting to piss me off that's all. Plus, I really think these people asking about 4th tier schools are looking for real advice. And whatever their chances are at succeeding in life, I'm pretty sure they are not going to waste their time considering the b.s. comments about studying seagulls instead of going to law school.

General dissuasion against T4 law schools isn't a bad thing, especially since with proper LSAT prep anyone can go to at least a T2.

But Nova is the better of the two. In addition to the employment stats already posted, Florida Coastal (along with two other schools owned by the same company, Infilaw) is reviled among the legal community due to the fact that it is shareholder-owned and operated for-profit. This fact also keeps it in perennial jeopardy of losing its accreditation, which the AALS has opined it should.

At a minimum, it is very true that you would need to do very well at either to have decent "prospects." Frankly, (a) if I were forced to matriculate at one, I'd gun my ass off and transfer up after 1L, and (b) if I were forced to graduate from one, I'd open a solo practice and hope that I had a natural ability to bring in clients.

[bk1]

Why is this such a common response? While it seems many people do not agree with OP considering either of the two law schools I'm beginning to think these are just the ones that have enough time on their hands and care enough to comment. Why do they care so much? They are such goodhearted people and they feel obligated to give their advice... Gimme a break.

I'm not the norm but I give the advice because it seriously helped me out when I first started posting on TLS and I truly feel like passing it on is worthwhile. If it wasn't for TLS telling me how bad an idea the schools I was considering really were, I would have gone to a crappy T2 while taking out $150,000 worth of debt.

I also have a lot of time on my hands while I work my dead end job prior to starting school.

[taxguy]

Donlocke, I just happened to read over this thread and found it amazing that there are three pages of posts and most of which are garbage flames. You can get good info here on TLS if you are willing to put up with the idiots. It is too bad that we can't have an "ignore" ability for flamers.

OK, I will address your question without flames. Clearly, Nova is the better school, by far, over Florida Coastal. In fact, I know of several law professors at other schools who all feel that NOVA is a pretty good school as far as quality of faculty and practical legal training. I would NEVER recommend a "for profit" school such as Florida Coastal if you have any other choice. Moreover, don't get sucked into the Florida Coastal scholarship. Few keep it there. Finally, NOVA actually has a decent reputation among lawyers in South Florida. There are a number of judges who went there.
Most posters here don't know anything about NOVA except their rankings. However, they actually have some good ties with South Florida firms.
Moreover, I don't know if you visited each school;however, NOVA's campus is gorgeous. It has some great facilities.
However, with all that said, unless you are the top of your class, you will find that getting a job from either school will be an uphill battle at best especially in this economy. If you are determined to be a lawyer and want to go there, you should have some solid job connections once you get out. If not, you should try hard to transfer to a more well known place such as Florida State or UF or even Miami. Even Stetson would be a better choice for its connections and decent reputation for its litigation training and faculty. If you check Rate my professor.com, you will see that both Stetson and NOVA have , overall, well rated faculty.

Obviously, getting into a T1 school via transfer would be the better option since it would give you a broader range of firms to apply to. However, this isn't an option unless you do spectacularly well.

If you are committed to attending NOVA, here are two strong suggestions. First, during the summer read over all of the E&E books for first year courses such as contracts, property, civ pro, torts, and constitutional law. You don't need to study them or outline them. Just read them over for familiarization. This will provide you with a strong overview of each course and give you a big advantage over other students especially for the first semester. Secondly, work yourself as hard as possible in the first semester particularly, You need to do well if you want to transfer to a much better school. If you have questions about a topic, meet with the professor about it. Finish your outlines and KNOW THEM COLD well before the time for finals. Don't use commercial outlines! If you can, get a good outline from an upperclassmen or on the web for your book,but DEFINITELY make your own outline. Don't just rely on someone else's outline. During final study time, focus on test question found on the web or at your school. If you do well enough, you can stay at NOVA and try to negotiate a great scholarship if you do well. There is definitely something to be said about not having much law school debt.

I have seen both schools and am familiar with both places. If you have any questions, you can post your questions or PM me. Good luck.

[FeelTheHeat]

However, with all that said, unless you are the top of your class, you will find that getting a job from either school will be an uphill battle at best especially in this economy.

Don't really see how anything else you wrote is relevant besides that, which isn't that far from what everyone else ITT is saying.

[maxm2764]

OMG, tax guy is back. I ran here.

[NYC Law]

OMG, tax guy is back. I ran here.

He's been back.

His advice is still slowly creeping towards 'good', but it still has a long way to go.