Top Law Schools

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:20 pm**

Brooklyn started with a 22k offer, and after I withdrew increased to 30k, then the full 47k. In that time I had committed to Seton Hall with a 35k offer. I have paid my initial seat deposit at SH, and now I'm stuck...

Some more info:

- Stipulations:
SHU - Renewable if top 50%, all or nothing.
BLS - 100% if in top 40%, 75% if below 40% but within top 50%, 50% if below 50% but upper 65%.

- I will be moving back to NJ, so I plan on living at home the first year to start. That makes year 1 a wash between what I would owe SH and Brooklyn's housing costs. Realistically, any financial comparison starts after year one assuming I retain all scholarships.
- My plan is to practice in NJ, although if the opportunity presented itself in NY I would not be opposed to it. However, right now it seems that the NJ market is slightly less saturated and may present an easier time getting a job out of SH than competing in NY coming out of Brooklyn. Does anyone know if Brooklyn places well in NJ?
- Seton Hall has risen in the rankings (taken with a HUGE grain of salt, I know) to overtake Brooklyn. Not sure how far that goes.
- I had initially tried to negotiate more out of SHU using full tuition offers from Saint John's and Hofstra as leverage. I was told nothing could me done. Does it look stupid, or worse, disrespectful, to inquire again in light of this new offer even AFTER submitting an initial deposit?
- I live in DC and need to let Brooklyn know by Monday. Does this warrant a trip up to NYC to visit and meet with someone?

I'm really desperate for advice here guys, I appreciate your help.

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:21 pm**

The difference in ranking between T2 schools, especially ones that close, is pretty much arbitrary. You really need those stips removed. Both schools clearly want you; make them fight for you

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:30 pm**

Rankings after 30 turn into really regional. You have to look into QOL and alumni relationships. I don't know enough about SH, but BL has an extremely large alumni base.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:50 pm**

Go to Brooklyn. It should open up NYC, and you could commute from NJ to start. It may open up NJ too. I'm between Rutgers at stick and Seton Hall at 10k a year. Brooklyn may be the better academic institution, I couldn't even get in applying Early Decision.

Especially b/c your getting all that scholarship money. You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:04 pm**

DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.

Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:06 pm**

beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.
Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.

boom.

roasted.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:18 pm**

JamMasterJ wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.
Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.
boom.

roasted.

I'm sure he did it with Social Justice at heart.

OP, I hate to say SHU but because your goal is to work in NJ (although you're open to NYC), then regionally SHU would be the "better" option. However, if you truly want a viable option to work in the city than BLS would be your choice out of the two schools you have available.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:26 pm**

Leverage the offers against each other to get stipulations lowered. Go to whichever gives you the better chance of keeping the scholarship.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:42 pm**

I forgot being an asshole and using part to whole flaws was a pre-req for posting.

Sorry bud.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:45 pm**

beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.
Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.

Is it hard to wake up hating your life everyday?

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:17 am**

DK33 wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.
Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.
Is it hard to wake up hating your life everyday?

LOL. He mad.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:26 am**

DK33 wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.
Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.
Is it hard to wake up hating your life everyday?

I don't hate my life at all. I did very well my 1L year. Good luck next year, bro.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:43 am**

cinephile wrote:Leverage the offers against each other to get stipulations lowered. Go to whichever gives you the better chance of keeping the scholarship.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:41 am**

OP: How do you not also have a full scholarship from Rutgers?

You can certainly practice in NJ from either BLS or Seton Hall, esp with personal ties to NJ. Seton Hall likely has a stronger NJ network but NJ is still within BLS's "region." BLS is definitely MUCH stronger in NYC. I would go to whichever will have a cheaper cost of attendance total, or if they're equal I'd go to Seton Hall. I don't recommend commuting all the way from NJ to BLS fwiw -- you need to save time to study so you can keep that scholarship.

Also I'd see if Seton Hall will up your $ offer.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:03 am**

Hi all, to be honest I didn't even realize my post was still getting attention! I came back to SH with the offer and again they didn't budge. This is not a knock to them, as they were very gracious throughout the entire process, but at the end of the day I just felt like Brooklyn 'wanted' me more.

I committed to BLS and was set up with incredible housing in a new high rise a few blocks from the school. Its not necessarily a cheap option, but it is well below market value for similar apartments in Brooklyn Heights. As far as I'm concerned, you can't put a price on comfort and accessibility during your first year, so whatever is going to help me keep my merit $ is a small inconvenience in the big picture.

So yeah, that's where I'm at. I have some history with the Brooklyn Heights neighborhood and always considered BLS a top choice. I took a few years off after undergrad and always had it on my radar, just never thought it would be financially possible. It was a welcome surprise and I'm excited to be going there. I've also really opened myself up to the possibility of pursuing NYC law, and was more than encouraged by the students I encountered who told me that the switch to NJ was a breeze. The interim Dean himself said to me he wishes many more students would consider NJ options.

Thanks for the input and advice!

ps

To answer a previous post regarding Rutgers; I have been living and working in the DC area the last few years. I no longer had NJ residency, and just sort of gave up on pursuing that option. I later heard, though didn't clarify, that there still may have been opportunities to get the in-state rate. I always liked Rutgers, so that was a mistake on my part for not looking into that further.

The same is true for SHU. Even though at the end of the day we couldn't make the numbers work, I was very impressed with the facilities and everyone I encountered there. I don't understand so many of the harsh comments directed at them on here.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:51 pm**

btr77 wrote: The same is true for SHU. Even though at the end of the day we couldn't make the numbers work, I was very impressed with the facilities and everyone I encountered there. I don't understand so many of the harsh comments directed at them on here.

I thought the same. I was impressed at all the events I attended.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:34 pm**

beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
DK33 wrote:You shouldn't just assume you'll lose it. The people on these boards are generally sad cyncial souls. Don't take what they're telling you as Gospel.
Oh okay 0L. Clearly people who have gone through LS have no idea what they're talking about in comparison to your second hand information.
Is it hard to wake up hating your life everyday?
I don't hate my life at all. I did very well my 1L year. Good luck next year, bro.

So I suppose your law school experience=everyone's law school experience....

part to whole flaw homeboy. As stunning as it may be, some people aren't going into this for the money. I didn't get my ethics from the movie Paper Chase, but I really feel bad if you did. Thanks for the sarcasm, and have fun on Wall St.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:36 pm**

tjs86 wrote:
btr77 wrote: The same is true for SHU. Even though at the end of the day we couldn't make the numbers work, I was very impressed with the facilities and everyone I encountered there. I don't understand so many of the harsh comments directed at them on here.
I thought the same. I was impressed at all the events I attended.

So was I. They did a great job selling Seton Hall. It was mainly economics for me. Even w/ a partial scholarship, the tuition difference between there and R.U. Newark was too much to pass up.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:46 pm**

Dear God, choosing b/t Brooklyn and Seton Hall? That's like deciding whether to drink cyanide or put a pistol in your mouth. Both schools are absurdly overpriced, have abysmal biglaw placement, and mostly just operate as diploma mills to siphon Stafford loan booty into the hands of their fatcat admins and profs.

Spend some time on this website to get an idea of what awaits you OP:

http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/2 ... idity.html

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:52 pm**

areyouinsane wrote:Dear God, choosing b/t Brooklyn and Seton Hall? That's like deciding whether to drink cyanide or put a pistol in your mouth. Both schools are absurdly overpriced, have abysmal biglaw placement, and mostly just operate as diploma mills to siphon Stafford loan booty into the hands of their fatcat admins and profs.

Spend some time on this website to get an idea of what awaits you OP:

http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/2 ... idity.html

GTFO

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:00 pm**

I have a hard time understanding why so much anger is directed at those who point out what a mistake going to a TTT law school will be. The fact is that even when the economy was good, these schools still had utterly abysmal placement, mostly in small-time gutter firms doing work like landlord tenant or ambulance chasing, etc. If these schools charged reasonable tuition (like 5 K a year), no one would really care, but Brooklyn and the toilet called SH charge the same as Yale for their comical "law degrees," if that's what you want to call them.

Also get ready to lose that $$$, as these schools love to "stack" all the scholly kids together so that most lose the ride after 1st semester. The old bait n' switch.

It isn't "mean" to point out the dismal prosepcts coming out of these schools, it's simply the cold, hard truth. If these were/are the best schools you can get into, you're probably better off just admitting right now that law probably "isn't your thing" and become a hairdresser, truck driver, or some other menial job. Why not just take a 30-40 K job in one of these areas now, rather than wasting 3 years to end up with that salary in 2015 or whatever?

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:15 pm**

areyouinsane wrote:I have a hard time understanding why so much anger is directed at those who point out what a mistake going to a TTT law school will be. The fact is that even when the economy was good, these schools still had utterly abysmal placement, mostly in small-time gutter firms doing work like landlord tenant or ambulance chasing, etc. If these schools charged reasonable tuition (like 5 K a year), no one would really care, but Brooklyn and the toilet called SH charge the same as Yale for their comical "law degrees," if that's what you want to call them.

Also get ready to lose that $$$, as these schools love to "stack" all the scholly kids together so that most lose the ride after 1st semester. The old bait n' switch.

It isn't "mean" to point out the dismal prosepcts coming out of these schools, it's simply the cold, hard truth. If these were/are the best schools you can get into, you're probably better off just admitting right now that law probably "isn't your thing" and become a hairdresser, truck driver, or some other menial job. Why not just take a 30-40 K job in one of these areas now, rather than wasting 3 years to end up with that salary in 2015 or whatever?

Your message would be a lot more well received if you cut the hyperbole and actually used credible statistics. But instead you just act like a douche about it.

There are plenty of reasons not to go to TTT law schools and plenty of data to support why without needing to embellish the tale.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:24 pm**

You're now competing with Ivy League kids just to get a crummy Traffic Court clerkship:

http://blog.nwjobs.com/careercenter/new ... ships.html

Doc review rates for licensed attorneys down to $27 an hour an still falling:

--LinkRemoved--

Understand that these doc review jobs aren't outliers- they are proof positive of how obscenely oversaturated the attorney market is. Is it worth 3 more years of school to, if you're lucky, make $27 an hour? Also remember that these temp jobs have no health benefits, 401K, or build any useful skills.

These temp jobs are where TTTs like Brooklyn and Seton Hall try to stick most of their grads. Hell, they invite the temp agencies to campus to sign up 3 Ls and get them ready for their "career." These jobs are all over the school' employment listservs and such too.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:27 pm**

areyouinsane wrote:I have a hard time understanding why so much anger is directed at those who point out what a mistake going to a TTT law school will be. The fact is that even when the economy was good, these schools still had utterly abysmal placement, mostly in small-time gutter firms doing work like landlord tenant or ambulance chasing, etc. If these schools charged reasonable tuition (like 5 K a year), no one would really care, but Brooklyn and the toilet called SH charge the same as Yale for their comical "law degrees," if that's what you want to call them.

Also get ready to lose that $$$, as these schools love to "stack" all the scholly kids together so that most lose the ride after 1st semester. The old bait n' switch.

It isn't "mean" to point out the dismal prosepcts coming out of these schools, it's simply the cold, hard truth. If these were/are the best schools you can get into, you're probably better off just admitting right now that law probably "isn't your thing" and become a hairdresser, truck driver, or some other menial job. Why not just take a 30-40 K job in one of these areas now, rather than wasting 3 years to end up with that salary in 2015 or whatever?

I hear you. Don't shoot the messenger, the saying goes, but when the message is as awful as it is, someone needs to get shot.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:35 pm**

areyouinsane wrote:Dear God, choosing b/t Brooklyn and Seton Hall? That's like deciding whether to drink cyanide or put a pistol in your mouth. Both schools are absurdly overpriced, have abysmal biglaw placement, and mostly just operate as diploma mills to siphon Stafford loan booty into the hands of their fatcat admins and profs.

Spend some time on this website to get an idea of what awaits you OP:

http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/2 ... idity.html

You realize that these overpriced schools are giving this dude full tuition or close to it? Granted, he has to keep his grades above the 60th percentile/median, but he's got numbers approaching the 75th percentile in both categories - he's got a very legitimate shot of keeping his schollies, and he may be able to defray living expenses by living at home. Moreover, he will be able to get a fairly cheap test run at law school to see whether or not it's for him.

I'll grant you that the job market is abysmal and people should probably know about it, but if you don't tailor your responses to the situation at hand I'm going to assume that you're just climbing on top of your soap box to rant and rave, and I'm going to ban you. Second warning.

Top Law Schools

Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS Forum

Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS