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Mich (54k) vs Duke(60k)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:29 pm
by dabbadon8
Just got in off duke's WL. They said they have some money to give and I will find out an offer soon. Right now I am deposited at mich, and have 54k there, plus I have signed a lease in the lawyers club that would cost me ~6k if I didn't end up going there. I do really like duke and would like to consider them but I am wondering how much money I would need to consider going there? 60K? or more? I have seen conflicting things on these boards about whether they are peers or not. I would also be concerned about duke's most recent NLJ250 numbers. I know this topic is a little premature without an offer from duke yet, but they would only give me a few days to decide so I would like to start thinking about this now. Thanks!
Edit: Got 60k from duke. I am looking in to whether I'd be able to cancel the lease at mich. I called today and they said I probably could, but would need to confirm next week. Assume I could though.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:31 pm
by bjsesq
dabbadon8 wrote:Just got in off duke's WL. They said they have some money to give and I will find out an offer soon. Right now I am deposited at mich, and have 54k there, plus I have signed a lease in the lawyers club that would cost me ~6k if I didn't end up going there. I do really like duke and would like to consider them but I am wondering how much money I would need to consider going there? 60K? or more? I have seen conflicting things on these boards about whether they are peers or not. I would also be concerned about duke's most recent NLJ250 numbers. I know this topic is a little premature without an offer from duke yet, but they would only give me a few days to decide so I would like to start thinking about this now. Thanks!
You provided a bunch of reasons that make Michigan sound like the best decision for you. In a few minutes, a poster by the name of quakeroats is likely to come in this thread and bash the fuck out of you with Duke trolling. Given the information you have already posted, and barring a substantial offer from Duke, I would go to Mich. Good luck to you.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:38 pm
by dabbadon8
I guess I should say I am very interested in working in the southeast eventually. Though my first priorities are job prospects in general and debt. I also like duke's small class size, weather, and location. I don't like it's graded legal writing.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:40 pm
by bjsesq
dabbadon8 wrote:I guess I should say I am very interested in working in the southeast eventually.
Yeah, that would have been a good thing to mention. That changes the caluclus quite a bit, considering Duke's rep there.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:41 pm
by bdubs
Personally, I would consider Duke with $90k+. At that point, you are talking about a reasonable debate of money, rank, and location. Without that much, or more, I just cant see anyone making a convincing case for Duke that speaks to your situation.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:45 pm
by johnnyutah
dabbadon8 wrote:I guess I should say I am very interested in working in the southeast eventually.
If you get a good offer from Duke, and you can stomach being surrounded by fucking Blue Devils and Coach K, then go there.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:45 pm
by Pricer
I would take Duke at equal cost of attendance to Michigan. I would rather live and work in the Southeast than go to school in Ann Arbor.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:46 pm
by johnnyutah
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:50 pm
by 09042014
Does "interested in the southeast eventually" mean you would target that area at OCI? Or that you want to settle there after a ten years in NYC?
If the former a case could be made for Duke, if the latter, I'd say Michigan.
Dukes NLJ250 numbers are because the Southern legal market shat itself in 09-10. Southern firms no offered half their Summer Associates. A lot of people who could have gotten a job in NYC, took one in Atlanta, then got no offered. So on one hand it's not representative of Duke's placement power, but on the other hand the south's legal economy still isn't doing that great. But now that people are aware, they can look for work in NYC instead of the south if they don't have hte grades for southern big law.
And I'd suspect by the time C/O 2014 rolls around the South will be better than it was in the last few years.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:52 pm
by AreJay711
I'd consider it with $60K but as someone starting at Michigan in a week I obviously think that it is the better choice. Do you have any family or other strong ties to the South? If that is the case, Michigan isn't much worse than Duke for the region and puts you in a much stronger position for the Midwest. That was largely what made Michigan my number one choice. I agree with the other posters that with 90K+ or if you have no ties to the region then the story changes but I think having overall more mobility at Michigan is worth something.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:29 pm
by dabbadon8
Yeah I have ties to florida and some weak ties in atlanta. As to whether I would want to work in the south immediately, I would like to do biglaw in the south immediately, but I don't know if I would target the south at OCI. It really depends on how the market is doing. I want to be employed first and foremost.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:49 pm
by lakerfanimal
Pricer wrote:I would take Duke at equal cost of attendance to Michigan. I would rather live and work in the Southeast than go to school in Ann Arbor.
+1. If they give you equal money or money that's close enough, just go where you like. I think Michigan does do a little better placement wise (just speculation based off of what I've read/heard), but I don't think it's that big a difference.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:57 pm
by dooood
,
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:08 pm
by lawyerwannabe
dooood wrote:Mich places a little better in biglaw and A3 clerkships, but if you know you want to be in ATL/FLA then I would go to Duke if they match the offer. COL is low in both Durham and Ann Arbor, but if you get significantly less $ at Dook ($10/year less), Mich is probably your best bet.
While if I were in OP's shoes, I would choose UMich over Duke unless Duke came back with more money than UMich was offering, I have to disagree with this statement.
DF explained the one outlier of a year concerning Duke's NLJ250 placement in 2010.
The latest A3 clerkship percentages, and the few years preceding those, show that while Duke and UMich are very similar in placement, Duke has done slightly better overall (only trailing HYS if I remember correctly).
Also, here is a link showing the placement of Duke students for this upcoming summer (Class of 2012). These are not numbers I made up. Duke handed out student summer employment to every student who attended ASW.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=155101
And, since this is the only hard data that we have (you will say that it is old but it is still representative) of Vault 100 placement, here is a link to that too:
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:33 pm
by AreJay711
dabbadon8 wrote:Yeah I have ties to florida and some weak ties in atlanta. As to whether I would want to work in the south immediately, I would like to do biglaw in the south immediately, but I don't know if I would target the south at OCI. It really depends on how the market is doing. I want to be employed first and foremost.
I think this is a reason to take Michigan. Maybe Chicago firms come alive and need people while everywhere else lags for some reason. Also, as for ties I've gathered from here that it is more how you sell them than what they actually are.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:44 pm
by ahduth
AreJay711 wrote:dabbadon8 wrote:Yeah I have ties to florida and some weak ties in atlanta. As to whether I would want to work in the south immediately, I would like to do biglaw in the south immediately, but I don't know if I would target the south at OCI. It really depends on how the market is doing. I want to be employed first and foremost.
I think this is a reason to take Michigan. Maybe Chicago firms come alive and need people while everywhere else lags for some reason. Also, as for ties I've gathered from here that it is more how you sell them than what they actually are.
I heard a rumor somewhere that Chicago firms were going to start hiring, but I can't remember where.
They damn well better be looking at me if I do actually decide to OCI back from the east coast.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:16 pm
by TUP
Based on the 5 years of NLJ data that's posted on this forum, Duke has a 52% average compared to 51% for Michigan. Clerkship placement over the past 3 years is similar with Duke at 12% compared to 11% for Michigan.
Do you prefer the midwest or the south? Cold winters or not? AA or Durham?
Within the MVBDNC group of schools, location preferences should probably be the deciding factor.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:19 pm
by lawyerwannabe
O no. You didn't put P in it's own group, did you!?
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:27 pm
by BruceWayne
TUP wrote:Based on the 5 years of NLJ data that's posted on this forum, Duke has a 52% average compared to 51% for Michigan. Clerkship placement over the past 3 years is similar with Duke at 12% compared to 11% for Michigan.
Do you prefer the midwest or the south? Cold winters or not? AA or Durham?
Within the MVBDNC group of schools, location preferences should probably be the deciding factor.
Location preferences should be a big factor all the way up until HYS. All of the other schools' reputations vary signifcanlty out of their home area. For instance NYU isn't any stronger than the rest of the top 14 in DC or the South. So even if OP got into NYU Duke would be preferable for working in the southeast (which is what the OP wants). Duke is hands down the correct response (other than UVA) for someone who wants to work biglaw in the southeast.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:30 pm
by TUP
lawyerwannabe wrote:O no. You didn't put P in it's own group, did you!?
MVPBDNC then ... Or NMVPBDNC really ... splitting hairs at this point, though. Within that tier posters just pull for their own school.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:03 am
by dabbadon8
Well they offered me 60k, the exact number they would need to complicate my life. Any thoughts now?
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:18 am
by 09042014
dabbadon8 wrote:Well they offered me 60k, the exact number they would need to complicate my life. Any thoughts now?
I'd take Duke. Same placement strength, but better in the region you want to live in.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:31 am
by bdubs
dabbadon8 wrote:Well they offered me 60k, the exact number they would need to complicate my life. Any thoughts now?
Duke is slightly more expensive than Michigan (don't know that much about COA though). You also said your goal is first and foremost a job, and I think Michigan is the better option for that at equal cost. Yes, Duke is better in the SE but there haven't been many jobs there in recent years.
I still say Michigan.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:42 pm
by bjsesq
Desert Fox wrote:dabbadon8 wrote:Well they offered me 60k, the exact number they would need to complicate my life. Any thoughts now?
I'd take Duke. Same placement strength, but better in the region you want to live in.
This.
Re: Mich ($$) vs Duke($?)
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:52 pm
by beachbum
bjsesq wrote:Desert Fox wrote:dabbadon8 wrote:Well they offered me 60k, the exact number they would need to complicate my life. Any thoughts now?
I'd take Duke. Same placement strength, but better in the region you want to live in.
This.
