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USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:54 pm
by bisonpower27
Long time lurker, first time poster..
Here's my situation.. I was accepted to USC but at sticker. Obviously, paying 200k to attend USC ITE is extremely risky. However, I have a SO who would cover all of my living expenses during law school and potentially some tuition as well, so my total COA would come out to no more than $150K when factoring in tuition increases over the next 3 years. My career goals are LA Biglaw for a few years before moving on to a small firm. My question is this: Considering my situation, does USC make sense for me to attend?
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:57 pm
by scammedhard
Start a poll, and NO.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:57 pm
by 071816
What are your other options?
Edit: this is relevant to my interests as I am on USC's WL.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:03 pm
by bisonpower27
chimp wrote:What are your other options?
Edit: this is relevant to my interests as I am on USC's WL.
At this point it's USC or nothing at all. Problem is I outperformed my numbers and didn't apply accordingly. So I left myself with a bunch of options that aren't exactly enticing. I had scholarships to a bunch of schools in the T30-50 but all either had undesirable stips or were in locations I didn't want to move to.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:05 pm
by 071816
bisonpower27 wrote:chimp wrote:What are your other options?
Edit: this is relevant to my interests as I am on USC's WL.
At this point it's USC or nothing at all. Problem is I outperformed my numbers and didn't apply accordingly. So I left myself with a bunch of options that aren't exactly enticing. I had scholarships to a bunch of schools in the T30-50 but all either had undesirable stips or were in locations I didn't want to move to.
IMO it would be worth it for you to attend, but everyone is going to disagree with me. Is reapplying next cycle an option?
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:16 pm
by bisonpower27
IMO it would be worth it for you to attend, but everyone is going to disagree with me. Is reapplying next cycle an option?[/quote]
It is definitely an option if I don't come to a reasonable comfort level. This year was already a retake/reapply year for me. I went from not breaking into T1 last year to getting an acceptance at a T20 school this year. I really want the LA market but T14 is out of the question and I was waitlisted at UCLA. I have ties to LA that make it tough to leave and my SO and I have quite a bit of money saved towards a down payment on a house (the goal being buying one w/in a year or so after I graduate), so saving money for buying a house might not be as difficult for me as it might be for others in a different situation.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:19 pm
by bjsesq
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: DEAR GOD, NO.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:22 pm
by bisonpower27
bjsesq wrote:Short answer: NO.
Long answer: DEAR GOD, NO.
That's kind of my feeling too. My worries are that even if I retake/reapply I won't be able to get $ from any schools that suit my interests. Anything specific you wanna elaborate on?
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:24 pm
by bjsesq
bisonpower27 wrote:bjsesq wrote:Short answer: NO.
Long answer: DEAR GOD, NO.
That's kind of my feeling too. My worries are that even if I retake/reapply I won't be able to get $ from any schools that suit my interests. Anything specific you wanna elaborate on?
LA is a crappy legal market. Cost. Competition. Keep in mind, I think no school outside of the T6 is worth sticker.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:32 pm
by bisonpower27
bjsesq wrote:bisonpower27 wrote:bjsesq wrote:Short answer: NO.
Long answer: DEAR GOD, NO.
That's kind of my feeling too. My worries are that even if I retake/reapply I won't be able to get $ from any schools that suit my interests. Anything specific you wanna elaborate on?
LA is a crappy legal market. Cost. Competition. Keep in mind, I think no school outside of the T6 is worth sticker.
The LA market is definitely both saturated and sagging. It's funny because USC was my top choice six months ago when I applied and once I got in and started dwelling on the cost it became much less appealing. My biggest thing is this: I've got a roughly 30% chance of biglaw out of USC, so does that justify $150,000? I keep going back and forth. Obviously in the best case scenario the debt would be worth it. My huge worry is what happens if I don't hit the biglaw lotto (and it is more likely I don't make it than I do).
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:34 pm
by Curry
bjsesq wrote:bisonpower27 wrote:bjsesq wrote:Short answer: NO.
Long answer: DEAR GOD, NO.
That's kind of my feeling too. My worries are that even if I retake/reapply I won't be able to get $ from any schools that suit my interests. Anything specific you wanna elaborate on?
LA is a crappy legal market. Cost. Competition. Keep in mind, I think no school outside of the T6 is worth sticker.
When he's right, he's right.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:35 pm
by bjsesq
bisonpower27 wrote:The LA market is definitely both saturated and sagging. It's funny because USC was my top choice six months ago when I applied and once I got in and started dwelling on the cost it became much less appealing. My biggest thing is this: I've got a roughly 30% chance of biglaw out of USC, so does that justify $150,000? I keep going back and forth. Obviously in the best case scenario the debt would be worth it. My huge worry is what happens if I don't hit the biglaw lotto (and it is more likely I don't make it than I do).
I think you should begin with the presumption that you don't make biglaw (since there is a 7/10 chance you don't) and decide accordingly.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:39 pm
by bisonpower27
bjsesq wrote:bisonpower27 wrote:The LA market is definitely both saturated and sagging. It's funny because USC was my top choice six months ago when I applied and once I got in and started dwelling on the cost it became much less appealing. My biggest thing is this: I've got a roughly 30% chance of biglaw out of USC, so does that justify $150,000? I keep going back and forth. Obviously in the best case scenario the debt would be worth it. My huge worry is what happens if I don't hit the biglaw lotto (and it is more likely I don't make it than I do).
I think you should begin with the presumption that you don't make biglaw (since there is a 7/10 chance you don't) and decide accordingly.
Agreed. Thanks for your input. Anyone else have an opinion they want to share? Any insight is appreciated.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:51 pm
by TheSquire
I'm curious where people draw the line for this though. Are they just sour on the regional market? Do they think the same thing about UCLA? Should anyone risk paying sticker at BU or Fordham? Vanderbilt? Anything outside the T14? Should we all go to part-time programs? Is it better to just suck it up and go to T3-4 with full scholarships?
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:53 pm
by glitter178
TheSquire wrote:I'm curious where people draw the line for this though. Are they just sour on the regional market? Do they think the same thing about UCLA? Should anyone risk paying sticker at BU or Fordham? Vanderbilt? Anything outside the T14? Should we all go to part-time programs? Is it better to just suck it up and go to T3-4 with full scholarships?
Yes. Yes. No. No. No. No. No.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:54 pm
by Curry
glitter178 wrote:TheSquire wrote:I'm curious where people draw the line for this though. Are they just sour on the regional market? Do they think the same thing about UCLA? Should anyone risk paying sticker at BU or Fordham? Vanderbilt? Anything outside the T14? Should we all go to part-time programs? Is it better to just suck it up and go to T3-4 with full scholarships?
Yes. Yes. No. No. No. No. No.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:55 pm
by bjsesq
TheSquire wrote:I'm curious where people draw the line for this though.
Ok.
Are they just sour on the regional market?
Not JUST the legal market, but yeah, that is a part of it.
Do they think the same thing about UCLA?
Yes.
Should anyone risk paying sticker at BU or Fordham?
Fuck no on both.
Vanderbilt?
No
Anything outside the T14?
No.
Should we all go to part-time programs?
No, but wtf are you talking about?
Is it better to just suck it up and go to T3-4 with full scholarships?
Depends on your other options.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:01 pm
by RedItalus10
fwiw, Im taking the dive into debt as well. I think the debt will motivate me to do well during 1L. Also, LRAP/IBR makes things easier. I totally understand the fear though, because I am normally accustomed to a debt-averse mindset. I look at law school as an investment though, one that may or may not be worth the money (depending on 1L performance). My boss who has practiced law for 30 years put it this way, "your interviewer isn't going to ask about your debt, they are only going to care about what school you went to."
Another positive point of view is this: the decision to go to law school at all is the one that we are all making. That is the one that counts in the end. Debt can be paid and jobs can be fought for, but it's the going to law school part that opens up the possibilities. I know lawyers who went to schools that TLSers would laugh at and that are making tons of money and students who went to the best schools and are not successful. It's all about opportunity and performance while the opportunity is present. Once the opportunity is gone, it's gone.
Sry, I guess I want to dispel some of the TLS negativity.
Good Luck.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:03 pm
by Curry
RedItalus10 wrote:fwiw, Im taking the dive into debt as well. I think the debt will motivate me to do well during 1L. Also, LRAP/IBR makes things easier. I totally understand the fear though, because I am normally accustomed to a debt-averse mindset. I look at law school as an investment though, one that may or may not be worth the money (depending on 1L performance). My boss who has practiced law for 30 years put it this way, "your interviewer isn't going to ask about your debt, they are only going to care about what school you went to."
Another positive point of view is this: the decision to go to law school at all is the one that we are all making. That is the one that counts in the end. Debt can be paid and jobs can be fought for, but it's the going to law school part that opens up the possibilities. I know lawyers who went to schools that TLSers would laugh at and that are making tons of money and students who went to the best schools and are not successful. It's all about opportunity and performance while the opportunity is present. Once the opportunity is gone, it's gone.
Sry, I guess I want to dispel some of the TLS negativity.
Good Luck.
Do not listen to this.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:04 pm
by bjsesq
RedItalus10 wrote:I think the debt will motivate me to do well during 1L.
You and EVERYBODY ELSE.
Another positive point of view is this: the decision to go to law school at all is the one that we are all making. That is the one that counts in the end. Debt can be paid and jobs can be fought for, but it's the going to law school part that opens up the possibilities. I know lawyers who went to schools that TLSers would laugh at and that are making tons of money and students who went to the best schools and are not successful. It's all about opportunity and performance while the opportunity is present. Once the opportunity is gone, it's gone.
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:10 pm
by bisonpower27
Question for those saying no.. At what COA would you say it would make sense to attend a UCLA/USC/Vandy type of school?
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:11 pm
by bjsesq
bisonpower27 wrote:Question for those saying no.. At what COA would you say it would make sense to attend a UCLA/USC/Vandy type of school?
30k a year. Minimum.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:12 pm
by RedItalus10
Curry wrote:RedItalus10 wrote:fwiw, Im taking the dive into debt as well. I think the debt will motivate me to do well during 1L. Also, LRAP/IBR makes things easier. I totally understand the fear though, because I am normally accustomed to a debt-averse mindset. I look at law school as an investment though, one that may or may not be worth the money (depending on 1L performance). My boss who has practiced law for 30 years put it this way, "your interviewer isn't going to ask about your debt, they are only going to care about what school you went to."
Another positive point of view is this: the decision to go to law school at all is the one that we are all making. That is the one that counts in the end. Debt can be paid and jobs can be fought for, but it's the going to law school part that opens up the possibilities. I know lawyers who went to schools that TLSers would laugh at and that are making tons of money and students who went to the best schools and are not successful. It's all about opportunity and performance while the opportunity is present. Once the opportunity is gone, it's gone.
Sry, I guess I want to dispel some of the TLS negativity.
Good Luck.
Do not listen to this.
If you wish to live your life in pessimism, so be it.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:13 pm
by bjsesq
RedItalus10 wrote:If you wish to live your life in pessimism, so be it.
Talking like a fortune cookie doesn't make you deep.
Re: USC worth the price?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:15 pm
by shoeshine
No, but it doesn't mean you can't do well. Statistically the odds are against this being a good investment. The odds are slightly better over the long term. In other words, you have a good chance of struggling for the first several years out of law school but being better off over the long run once you pay off or pay down you mountain of debt (this is true of most law school debt). You shouldn't depend on big law from USC so if you are not okay with being in a ton of debt and doing marginal work straight out of law school then don't go. You should also ask yourself what it would do to your relationship if your SO paid for your living expenses and you were not able to get a big law job? Would your SO break up with you because of the money/stress issues?