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U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:55 pm
by northandwest
I just got off of the waitlist at UC and I need to decide if it is a better choice than my current one, NYU. My debt from NYU would be $120k, and I have yet to hear back from UC on financial aid.
Assorted other factors and thoughts:
I am from the Chicago area. It would definitely be easier to go to UC (speaking in terms of comfort and logistics, not academics). The weather will suck, but at least I'm used to it. :/ However, I don't necessarily love the idea of being so close to home or ending up stuck living where I grew up, and NYU is, well, in NYC, and in a much better area. Though I would imagine it would be cheaper to go to UC, housing-wise.
I don't know exactly what I want to do/study, but I am leaning toward international law, and I know that I don't aspire to work in biglaw.
I like the smaller class size, more academic-focused approach to law, and the quarter system (at least, the idea of spacing out finals and having more class variety) at UC. And honestly, I'm not that cool or fun of a person so the fact that the students are known to be studious nerds is OK with me.
If this is getting tl;dr but you nonetheless have some insight on comparisons, pros, cons, whatever between these two schools, let me know!
Edit
Just heard back from UC about financial aid. Both schools will cost me about the same.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:07 pm
by Dany
I love Chicago, but you really need to wait on financial aid. They're peer schools, and if you end up having to pay sticker at Chicago, you'd be crazy not to take NYU.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:15 pm
by duckmoney
Dany wrote:I love Chicago, but you really need to wait on financial aid. They're peer schools, and if you end up having to pay sticker at Chicago, you'd be crazy not to take NYU.
This.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:17 pm
by redsoxfan2495
You definitely need to hear back on financial aid before you make a decision here.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:17 am
by samsonyte16
If there is a significant difference in cost of attendance, I would go with NYU. Otherwise, I think you should plan a last minute visit to UChicago and see how it feels. Keep in mind, though, that international law is NYU's specialty and receives much more limited attention at Chicago.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:28 am
by Emma.
samsonyte16 wrote:If there is a significant difference in cost of attendance, I would go with NYU. Otherwise, I think you should plan a last minute visit to UChicago and see how it feels. Keep in mind, though, that international law is NYU's specialty and receives much more limited attention at Chicago doesn't really exist.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:44 am
by kurla88
What kind of international law are you interested in? If it's international business law, that's still biglaw, and if you're interested in more public international law stuff, it's not exactly a field brimming with jobs for fresh graduates.
From a biglaw perspective, going to NYU gets you good access to both the NYC and Chicago markets (as you're from there). Going to Chicago certainly doesn't cut out NYC, but does make it a bit harder?
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:49 am
by dixiecupdrinking
If you don't aspire to biglaw, my hunch is that NYU will do a better job of presenting you with other options and making them seem like legitimate career choices. I hear Chicago is improving their public interest support, but in recent years there have been as few as one or two graduating students going into public interest there.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:01 am
by TLSNYC
Part of my decision involved Chicago or NYU (I ultimately chose Penn over both). If I hadn't picked Penn, I would've gone to Chicago, because it is definitely a notch above NYU for clerkships and private sector placement. (I think it also has a slightly stronger brand.) There's no question, though, that NYU is the stronger school for people interested in PI/gov't. So, as other folks have suggested, it would help you to narrow your interests a bit in terms of "international law." Also, for what it's worth, an NYU JD for only 120k is a pretty good deal -- Chicago would have to be 150k or cheaper for this to even be a discussion worth having.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:27 pm
by Dany
kurla88 wrote:From a biglaw perspective, going to NYU gets you good access to both the NYC and Chicago markets (as you're from there). Going to Chicago certainly doesn't cut out NYC, but does make it a bit harder?
I would feel
much better about trying to get NYC biglaw out of UChicago than I would about getting Chicago biglaw out of NYU.
But like I said, at current costs it's a no brainer.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:11 pm
by ahduth
Dany wrote:kurla88 wrote:From a biglaw perspective, going to NYU gets you good access to both the NYC and Chicago markets (as you're from there). Going to Chicago certainly doesn't cut out NYC, but does make it a bit harder?
I would feel
much better about trying to get NYC biglaw out of UChicago than I would about getting Chicago biglaw out of NYU.
But like I said, at current costs it's a no brainer.
Yeah, that's wrong anyhow - NYC firms love to see Chicago grads, there's fewer of them, and they're... not CLS/NYU grads, of which they see a ton.
Chicago biglaw is definitely easier out of Chicago than NYU, unless you have ties presumably.
Would Chicago really give you money off the WL?
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:22 pm
by WhirledWorld
.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:26 pm
by bhan87
As of now, clearly NYU due to 80k less debt. If UChicago matches the offer or raises it, go on personal preference (I'd still prefer NYU in this situation)
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:06 pm
by northandwest
Thanks for everyone's input! I just got my financial aid award from UC and it's the same as NYU, so the schools will cost me pretty much the same. And I do not own a place in the area in Chicago.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:17 pm
by Dany
Well now that it's equal cost... of course I have to say UChicago!
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:19 pm
by trudat15
northandwest wrote:Thanks for everyone's input! I just got my financial aid award from UC and it's the same as NYU, so the schools will cost me pretty much the same. And I do not own a place in the area in Chicago.
Go where ever you'd feel more comfortable. Since they are peer schools at equal costs, it's just up to personal preference.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:20 pm
by northandwest
^ Ugh, if I could make my mind up about this, it would save me a lot of stress.
That, and if I knew more about what I wanted to do. I appreciate the notes on the schools' unique strengths and limitations... from what some people have said, I gather NYU would offer me the most flexibility if I don't know what I want yet. Is this an accurate reading of what people are saying? In the grand scheme of things, is this comparison really that large, or are these minor differences since these are equal schools?
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:21 pm
by Dany
northandwest wrote:^ Ugh, if I could make my mind up about this, it would save me a lot of stress.
That, and if I knew more about what I wanted to do. I appreciate the notes on the schools' unique strengths and limitations... from what some people have said, I gather NYU would offer me the most flexibility if I don't know what I want yet. Is this an accurate reading of what people are saying? In the grand scheme of things, is this comparison really that large, or are these minor differences since these are equal schools?
Minor differences. Have you visited both?
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:30 pm
by Emma.
northandwest wrote:^ Ugh, if I could make my mind up about this, it would save me a lot of stress.
That, and if I knew more about what I wanted to do. I appreciate the notes on the schools' unique strengths and limitations... from what some people have said, I gather NYU would offer me the most flexibility if I don't know what I want yet. Is this an accurate reading of what people are saying? In the grand scheme of things, is this comparison really that large, or are these minor differences since these are equal schools?
I don't think this is what people are saying. Both are great schools and they are certainly peer schools, but I don't think NYU is going to offer you any more flexibility than UChi. In fact, if you are looking for geographic flexibility, or considering clerkships/academia, it is pretty likely that UChi has the edge.
Full disclosure: I'm a UChi 1L.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:46 pm
by TLSNYC
Emma. wrote:northandwest wrote:^ Ugh, if I could make my mind up about this, it would save me a lot of stress.
That, and if I knew more about what I wanted to do. I appreciate the notes on the schools' unique strengths and limitations... from what some people have said, I gather NYU would offer me the most flexibility if I don't know what I want yet. Is this an accurate reading of what people are saying? In the grand scheme of things, is this comparison really that large, or are these minor differences since these are equal schools?
I don't think this is what people are saying. Both are great schools and they are certainly peer schools, but I don't think NYU is going to offer you any more flexibility than UChi. In fact, if you are looking for geographic flexibility, or considering clerkships/academia, it is pretty likely that UChi has the edge.
Full disclosure: I'm a UChi 1L.
I think they give you different kinds of flexibility -- NYU will give you more flexibility in terms of picking between private sector and public sector, whereas Chicago will give you far greater flexibility geographically in the private sector.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:43 am
by TaipeiMort
A few comments on international law.
First, international law in the private sector is basically you getting a biglaw job and becoming proficient at something and then lateraling after 3-7 years. Furthermore,there are like a few markets that people actually lateral into (The Middle East and China and maybe the other three BRICs in small quantities). The other non-Bric/ME markets are saturated with English-speaking foreign attorneys who are probably as skilled as you in English-based transactional law and have a secondary proficiency like finance or securities. Your only chance at getting into these non-BRIC/Middle East areas is being lucky when an office is being established, or speak a foreign language at a level that will allow you to manage native speakers at the satellite office as a partner. A final note on international private sector stuff is that you have to be in it for the long haul. Your kids will grow up in international schools and your spouse will likely feel lonely and isolated. You will get excited when you walk by an American store and see a case of mountain due or find the one Taco Bell in the country. Once you go, it will be hard to get back to the US, so you might find yourself living for awhile in an area you don't like-- enjoying "chopblock Tuesdays" in Saudi Arabia or not seeing the sun for months in big Asian cities.
Also, in terms of training, NYU and Chicago will have the same core classes for international legal practice. NYU may have some ancillary classes because of their larger staff. However, nothing substantive or career-based will be different at either one.
If you want to do PI, I know nothing, chose for yourself.
However in regards to Biglaw, understand that NYU will be a step down outside of New York. Evidence: This Biglaw hiring partner a few weeks ago:
RoyBatty wrote:Sorry to drop in out of the blue. I'm V20 partner involved in firm recruiting. I've lurked off and on for a while; with employer roundtables and interviews on the horizon I've been catching up. I'm writing on a phone watching NBA playoffs; pardon the many typos and grammar issues I'm bound to make. I'm observing and providing some insight. Not answering questions. Hope you'll forgive me that.
First, an observation: prospective students have much more information now and are assessing options in a more thoughtful and methodical way than I could have 13 years ago. That's great. (Though polling strangers that don't have the same options or information as you has marginal value except as entertainment.).
Some key misconceptions/uncertainties prevail in the discussion here. I'll try to be thread-specific. I'm only addressing big firm behavior here and I'm basing this on personal experience plus discussions with partners at other firms.
First, let me confirm that each top firm (at least in the markets where I mostly practice - NY, DC, Chi, Bos) essentially saves summer spots for kids from each of Y-Chi. (NYU is a bit different in a couple of markets for historical reasons. UM or UVA get spots held for Chi and DC, for example. NYU is golden in NY and the grads tend to stay there, so not much thought is given to it in some other markets, relatively speaking, IME. Cal is a similar example.
(The flip side of this point is that, yes, T6 (with minor variations at the "bottom") is real. Be very careful with the common wisdom I see here that "after HYS T14 is mostly the same". For the tippy-top firms, that's just not true.
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:05 am
by hotthaichick
I'm making this same decision and U Chicago just gave me $30,000 total compared to nothing from NYU (where I'm deposited). It's so hard because I completely fell in love with NYU and New York but now I'm wondering if Chicago would end up being a more sound decision. Especially with the vastly lower cost of living. I need help...
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:45 am
by northandwest
hotthaichick wrote:I'm making this same decision and U Chicago just gave me $30,000 total compared to nothing from NYU (where I'm deposited). It's so hard because I completely fell in love with NYU and New York but now I'm wondering if Chicago would end up being a more sound decision. Especially with the vastly lower cost of living. I need help...
OMG if I were in this financial situation with UC and NYU it would be a done deal. I assume there is no chance of negotiating aid after getting in from the waitlist... >_>
Dany wrote:Minor differences. Have you visited both?
Ugh, I wish. I decided on NYU before visiting because I decided it was significantly better than my other choice at the time, and I should have visited UC but wasn't even considering that I might get off the waitlist. Faaaaaail.
Thirdly, thanks, TaipeiMort, that was both helpful in at least making me less naive on the subject of international law and in nudging me closer to picking UC. And in a way that is based on actually insightful input, so that I know that if I do choose UC it will not be due to buckling under the pressure from my entire family to stay close to home.
/tmi
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:56 am
by Saul Goodman
When did they give you the aid offer?
Re: U Chicago or NYU?
Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:08 am
by northandwest
Saul Goodman wrote:When did they give you the aid offer?
Yesterday (Thursday). And +1 for the username.
