Top Law Schools

Not for me, but for a friend who asked me today.

He does not a have a great LSAT (speaks English as a 2nd language, and lives in an environment where English is not the norm), and worked very hard to get it up to "passable" - spent 2 years preparing (Kaplan course 2x, private tutoring, etc.) so retaking isn't such an option.

Options are:

Cooley at 1/2 tuition (13k/year)

or

A Tier 4 In Preferred Region at sticker (35k/year)

I advised sticker as he seems pretty independent, and can move to a new region (+ no tier 4 is worth 35k a year).

Do you really even need to ask TLS' opinion on this?

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:Do you really even need to ask TLS' opinion on this?

Well, I'd take Cooley only cause my personal opinion is unless your daddy/mommy runs a law firm, you shouldn't pursue law at a tier 4 (I'm not an elitist, but outside of the top 100 seems tough). However, given the 2, I'm just not sure if Cooley is as much as a scam as it seems from all of the unsolicited mailings/e-mails/etc.

Sorry but your friend will not become a Lawyer of any measure in the U.S. if he graduates from any of these diploma-mills.

You should just tell him to retake and try out for better ranked schools or think about another career path.

If the "folks" are paying for this mistake, then he should go for it ONLY if it's the last viable option.

Believe what you want to believe, it's the truth, sure you may know "someone" who did well in some piece of trash Law School in the middle of no where and is now making 200k/year, but it won't be the case for 99% of TTT-TTTT grads out there.

At this point it would be a better investment to work at Starbucks as you will outearn anyone who comes out of these rat-hole schools for the next decade or so.

Is the preferred region saturated by nearby T1, T2, and T3s?

Neither

Noval wrote:Sorry but your friend will not become a Lawyer of any measure in the U.S. if he graduates from any of these diploma-mills.

You should just tell him to retake and try out for better ranked schools or think about another career path.

If the "folks" are paying for this mistake, then he should go for it ONLY if it's the last viable option.

Believe what you want to believe, it's the truth, sure you may know "someone" who did well in some piece of trash Law School in the middle of no where and is now making 200k/year, but it won't be the case for 99% of TTT-TTTT grads out there.

At this point it would be a better investment to work at Starbucks as you will outearn anyone who comes out of these rat-hole schools for the next decade or so.

^This is absolutely true. Know a guy who is just about done with Cooley, and will face his painful reality soon.

My outlook on it all when I was applying to law schools was:

1) Either I get into the law school I want. One that will give me solid job opportunities for the hard work I am about to go through and if I do well.

Or, 2) I go ahead and work towards a Phd in History, my preferred subject, if I am only accepted to shitlaw schools (T4s unanimously made this list). Though competition to become a history professor is fierce, hence my decision to pursue law, the difference between the opportunities I would have as a History Phd and those that I would have as a T4 LS graduate would have been negligible - though my debt level would have been far less working towards a History Phd.

I don't know why people insist on ruining their lives with shitlaw T4 options when they have a choice to do something else. It doesn't make sense to go through the misery of law school at the prices that are charged for low job prospects and the very likely reality that debt will fuck up your life forever. Everyone, 100% of the time, should have a second option when their only choices for law are T4 shitlaw schools.

The LSAT is not be a great measure of intelligence, but in this case I think it does indicate that your friend should decidedly NOT go to law school. I think it shows his grasp of English. You say after working at it for 2 years he can only get his LSAT to a Cooley level. um, how the hell is he suppose to churn out a nuanced and detailed legal brief in a week? He might be able to, but there is chance it will not be good. And even if it is possible, he is going to have to put in way more effort than someone who has a full grasp of English.

I don't mean to sound like "foreigners are taking our jerbzs!!!" but at some point, people should specialize in what they are good at. Maybe your friend could become a doctor, accountant, consultant, start a business, pharmacist, teacher, etc, etc. basically there are a million things he could doing. but IMO spending hundreds of thousands *for a terrible, terrible school* to get into the one area where he is probably least suitable - that doesn't make any sense to me.

lol Cooley

Fred_McGriff wrote:Is the preferred region saturated by nearby T1, T2, and T3s?

yes

OP, please please don't let your friend go to any of these places.

gwuorbust wrote:The LSAT is not be a great measure of intelligence, but in this case I think it does indicate that your friend should decidedly NOT go to law school. I think it shows his grasp of English. You say after working at it for 2 years he can only get his LSAT to a Cooley level. um, how the hell is he suppose to churn out a nuanced and detailed legal brief in a week? He might be able to, but there is chance it will not be good. And even if it is possible, he is going to have to put in way more effort than someone who has a full grasp of English.

I don't mean to sound like "foreigners are taking our jerbzs!!!" but at some point, people should specialize in what they are good at. Maybe your friend could become a doctor, accountant, consultant, start a business, pharmacist, teacher, etc, etc. basically there are a million things he could doing. but IMO spending hundreds of thousands *for a terrible, terrible school* to get into the one area where he is probably least suitable - that doesn't make any sense to me.

Anything beside the Top-30 is a bad investment(Unless you got scholly) anyways.

Becoming a Doctor in the U.S. is just like going to a TTT Law School, if you miss the R.O.A.D. Specialties, have fun dealing with underpaying jobs, horrendous working hours and insurers ramming your ass every chance they get(Models & Bottles + respect for this profession is a myth).
Becoming a Pharmacist might be a good idea, but this dude is aiming T4 Law Schools, therefore Pharmacy School is out of question, same for Consulting as it requires a degree from a decent B-School, same for Accounting as well.
Becoming a teacher is cool, but finding a job is another story(Unless you have low expectations and shoot for HS Jobs).

Noval wrote:

gwuorbust wrote:The LSAT is not be a great measure of intelligence, but in this case I think it does indicate that your friend should decidedly NOT go to law school. I think it shows his grasp of English. You say after working at it for 2 years he can only get his LSAT to a Cooley level. um, how the hell is he suppose to churn out a nuanced and detailed legal brief in a week? He might be able to, but there is chance it will not be good. And even if it is possible, he is going to have to put in way more effort than someone who has a full grasp of English.

I don't mean to sound like "foreigners are taking our jerbzs!!!" but at some point, people should specialize in what they are good at. Maybe your friend could become a doctor, accountant, consultant, start a business, pharmacist, teacher, etc, etc. basically there are a million things he could doing. but IMO spending hundreds of thousands *for a terrible, terrible school* to get into the one area where he is probably least suitable - that doesn't make any sense to me.

Anything beside the Top-30 is a bad investment(Unless you got scholly) anyways.

Becoming a Doctor in the U.S. is just like going to a TTT Law School, if you miss the R.O.A.D. Specialties, have fun dealing with underpaying jobs, horrendous working hours and insurers ramming your ass every chance they get(Models & Bottles + respect for this profession is a myth).
Becoming a Pharmacist might be a good idea, but this dude is aiming T4 Law Schools, therefore Pharmacy School is out of question, same for Consulting as it requires a degree from a decent B-School, same for Accounting as well.
Becoming a teacher is cool, but finding a job is another story(Unless you have low expectations and shoot for HS Jobs).

That's a bit of a stretch. There are very strong regional schools outside of the top 30. if you intend on working within that particular region, then i don't think it's a bad investment. TTT is where it gets sketchy, i think. but again, it depends on the school

voltage88 wrote:

Noval wrote:

gwuorbust wrote:The LSAT is not be a great measure of intelligence, but in this case I think it does indicate that your friend should decidedly NOT go to law school. I think it shows his grasp of English. You say after working at it for 2 years he can only get his LSAT to a Cooley level. um, how the hell is he suppose to churn out a nuanced and detailed legal brief in a week? He might be able to, but there is chance it will not be good. And even if it is possible, he is going to have to put in way more effort than someone who has a full grasp of English.

I don't mean to sound like "foreigners are taking our jerbzs!!!" but at some point, people should specialize in what they are good at. Maybe your friend could become a doctor, accountant, consultant, start a business, pharmacist, teacher, etc, etc. basically there are a million things he could doing. but IMO spending hundreds of thousands *for a terrible, terrible school* to get into the one area where he is probably least suitable - that doesn't make any sense to me.

Anything beside the Top-30 is a bad investment(Unless you got scholly) anyways.

Becoming a Doctor in the U.S. is just like going to a TTT Law School, if you miss the R.O.A.D. Specialties, have fun dealing with underpaying jobs, horrendous working hours and insurers ramming your ass every chance they get(Models & Bottles + respect for this profession is a myth).
Becoming a Pharmacist might be a good idea, but this dude is aiming T4 Law Schools, therefore Pharmacy School is out of question, same for Consulting as it requires a degree from a decent B-School, same for Accounting as well.
Becoming a teacher is cool, but finding a job is another story(Unless you have low expectations and shoot for HS Jobs).

That's a bit of a stretch. There are very strong regional schools outside of the top 30. if you intend on working within that particular region, then i don't think it's a bad investment. TTT is where it gets sketchy, i think. but again, it depends on the school

Some schools even in the top-30 with a small scholarship are a bad investment imho.

Noval wrote:
Anything beside the Top-30 is a bad investment(Unless you got scholly) anyways.

I'm really starting to love the "Anything beyond the Top-X, where X is in the general vicinity of my school, is a bad idea" statements.

Isn't it possible - hypothetically possible that someone can go to a tier 4, and be able to hustle work by posting on craigslist, being a billboard guy, etc.? i think a lot of top law school kids come from rich sheltered backgrounds so a guy who does not mind getting his nose bloody might still be able to make it?

idk - anyway i gotta shower. when you would rather post on TLS than hang out with ur gf who is good looking and prob get dressed up all pretty, u know u have psychological issues.

flexityflex86 wrote:Not for me, but for a friend who asked me today.

He does not a have a great LSAT (speaks English as a 2nd language, and lives in an environment where English is not the norm), and worked very hard to get it up to "passable" - spent 2 years preparing (Kaplan course 2x, private tutoring, etc.) so retaking isn't such an option.

Options are:

Cooley at 1/2 tuition (13k/year)

or

A Tier 4 In Preferred Region at sticker (35k/year)

I advised sticker as he seems pretty independent, and can move to a new region (+ no tier 4 is worth 35k a year).

you call yourself a friend ? when u don't tell him he should not go?

he wants it so bad. when women ask him what he wants to do, he says be a lawyer. heck, i have a top 10 lsat score, and i admit i have no goddamn idea. i tutored him for like 10 hours for free from mid-Jan through the Feb test. He had gotten a 140 on his two previous. We got him up to a 148.

flexityflex86 wrote:he wants it so bad. when women ask him what he wants to do, he says be a lawyer. heck, i have a top 10 lsat score, and i admit i have no goddamn idea. i tutored him for like 10 hours for free from mid-Jan through the Feb test. He had gotten a 140 on his two previous. We got him up to a 148.

Top 10 LSAT score eh? Did you mean a 164 (90th percentile)?

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:Do you really even need to ask TLS' opinion on this?

+1. Jesus Christ OP, this a stupid thread.

dpk711 wrote:

flexityflex86 wrote:he wants it so bad. when women ask him what he wants to do, he says be a lawyer. heck, i have a top 10 lsat score, and i admit i have no goddamn idea. i tutored him for like 10 hours for free from mid-Jan through the Feb test. He had gotten a 140 on his two previous. We got him up to a 148.

Top 10 LSAT score eh? Did you mean a 164 (90th percentile)?

Flame giveaway?

I have a feeling that OP might not have a friend with this decision to make.

lol nah im in the 170s....splitter.

flexityflex86 wrote:lol nah im in the 170s....splitter.

You do realize that a 170 is more like in the top 2%, not 10%?

dpk711 wrote:

flexityflex86 wrote:lol nah im in the 170s....splitter.

You do realize that a 170 is more like in the top 2%, not 10%?

Assuming it's not a flame, I think he meant top ten as in 180-170=10.