Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link) Forum

[Rurik]

Arizona Law just confirmed to me that the USNWR number is essentially correct (actually 12.24% instead of the reported 12.3%) for the class of '09. Also said that the number for the C/O 2010 was substantially worse (less than half of that 12.24%). So there you go.

Are they including magistrate clerkships? If so, their count needs to be revised, as those are not Art. III clerkships. If not, I am both very surprised and impressed -- and I will readily admit my mistake.

Just got an unprompted follow-up from AZ Law. Turns out the number is actually 5.5% and was reported to UNSWR incorrectly. Seems to have been a completely honest mistake and they've let US News know - who should be updating the clerkship list soon.

[cool of law]

Arizona Law just confirmed to me that the USNWR number is essentially correct (actually 12.24% instead of the reported 12.3%) for the class of '09. Also said that the number for the C/O 2010 was substantially worse (less than half of that 12.24%). So there you go.

Are they including magistrate clerkships? If so, their count needs to be revised, as those are not Art. III clerkships. If not, I am both very surprised and impressed -- and I will readily admit my mistake.

Just got an unprompted follow-up from AZ Law. Turns out the number is actually 5.5% and was reported to UNSWR incorrectly. Seems to have been a completely honest mistake and they've let US News know - who should be updating the clerkship list soon.

I haven't really been following this thread, but Arizona reported a number that placed them 5th when in reality the number was half that??

[CanadianWolf]

Article III Judicial Clerkships Class of 2009: (Source = USNews except for Arizona correction).

1) Yale 27%
2) Stanford 24%
3) Harvard 18.1%
4) Univ. of Washington 18% (waiting for confirmation of this figure which was reported to USNews).

5) Duke 12%
6) Georgia 11%
7) Michigan 11%
Virginia 11%
9) Penn 10.4%
10) Charleston 10%---doubtful, but this is what was reported to & by USNews
11) Vanderbilt 10%

12) Colorado 9.5%
13) UCal-Berkeley 9%
14) Chicago 9%

15) Northwestern 8.1%
16) Columbia 8%
17) NYU 8%
18) Texas 8%
19) Notre Dame 7.6%
20) Alabama 7.5%

21) UNLV 6.8%
22) Cornell 6%
23) Memphis 6%
24) UCLA 5.9%
25) Wash. & Lee 5.9%
26) Emory 5.7%
27) Arizona 5.5% (incorrectly reported to USNews as 12.3%).
28) Georgetown 5.3%
29) Iowa 5.3%

Tied at 5% are Seton Hall, Dayton, Louisville, UNC & Richmond.

[beachbum]

yeahhh Duke, movin on up

[Law Sauce]

o yea now UVA gets the

[mrwarre85]

Impressed with CU.

No way Charleston placed 10%. They have only been a school since 2003.

[TUP]

yeahhh Duke, movin on up

YSHD

[CanadianWolf]

And if the University of Washington figures reported by USNews are incorrect, then the list of law schools placing above the 5% level will likely become :

1) Yale
2) Stanford
3) Harvard

4) Duke
5) Georgia
6) Michigan
7) Virginia
Penn
9) Vanderbilt
10) Colorado

11) UC-Berkeley
12) Chicago
13) Northwestern
14) Columbia
15) NYU
16) Texas
17) Washington
18) Notre Dame
19) Alabama

20) UNLV
21) Cornell
22) Memphis
23) UCLA
24) Wash & Lee
25) Emory
26) Arizona
27) Georgetown
28) Iowa

[beachbum]

Yeah, fuck UW. I'm also suspicious of those shady Harvard students. Someone should fact-check that TTT diploma mill.

[CanadianWolf]

Vindication regarding Arizona &, maybe, Washington. You were incorrect regarding Colorado. No reasonable person accepted Charleston's figure, but that is what was reported to USNews & that was what USNews reported to its subscribers.

[CanadianWolf]

The University of Washington clerkship data figures appear to be incorrect. Washington reported 18% Article III federal judicial clerkship placement as reported by USNews, but the true figure is likely to be in the 6% range. Historically Washington has reported about 16% for all clerkships including state & federal therefore suggesting that the 18% figure for the class of 2009 is for all clerkships, not just Article III clerkships.

[CanadianWolf]

If you would like to try to get the actual Article III placement data for the Univ. of Washington School of Law, try calling Esther Park at 206/ 616-1364.

[Sandro]

at the rate these schools keep dropping UGA will be #1 in a weeks time. I'm calling Harvard right now to double check their #s.

[CanadianWolf]

Over the past two or three years, Georgia has established a stellar reputation for Article III clerk placement, including the US Supreme Court.

P.S. Don't bother calling Harvard as their numbers might rise.

[scammedhard]

Vindication w/r/t at least Arizona, Washington, and Charleston. You don't know that I am wrong about Colorado, as there is no reason to think that their otherwise "out of place" number is any more valid than those for Arizona & Washington. So I think overall, it is no stretch to say that my initial suspicions --shared by many others -- were justified.

There is a broader message here, however. Law schools are frequently at least negligent and often reckless or malicious in their data reporting. That is, they put out employment, salary, clerkship, and other data that simply are not correct, and do so regularly. In many cases, as at Seton Hall or wherever (Villanova?), the improper reporting is intentional, but in such a way that the lie is difficult to detect. In others, it is the result of understandable confusion. But with applicants making very significant life- and financial-decisions in where they go to law school, the ABA and U.S. News should not tolerate either class of mistakes -- not, at least, on such a routine basis. It is easy to check these things and spot data points that look wrong. Why aren't the de jure and de facto regulators doing that?

Exactly. Data provided by law schools is TOTAL JUNK.
The current system where the ABA and/or US News do not verify the data and/or punish law schools for mistakes creates a huge incentive to provide positive, but misleading data, and a huge disincentive to provide honest, accurate data because honest schools would be in a competitive disadvantage. Why wouldn't a school lie about their numbers? If it gets caught, no biggie, but if it doesn't get caught, then school looks better and prospective students are misled.

[CanadianWolf]

@GTL Rev: Colorado confirmed their numbers, which were not "out-of-line". If you know otherwise, then share it.

GTL Rev is prolific at being critical without offering any substance to support his negative assertions.

P.S. They were not "your suspicions" as many of us expressed surprise. But, while you criticize, others verify.

[Patriot1208]

GTL Rev is prolific at being critical without offering any substance to support his negative assertions.

No, he isn't. He pretty much only posts about his experiences in the employment forum.

[Law Sauce]

CWolf I wouldn't criticize GTL Rev. He is one of the more valuable posters here. You however often say things that make me scratch my head. But on the other hand, I thank you for putting in some work and trying to verify the numbers. Unfortunately, I am not sure that we can trust the numbers that they give you any more than the numbers that they give us news. Your AZ discovery only demonstrates this.

[CanadianWolf]

It's nice to see a first year law student with so much wisdom. Might want to check for head lice. Take care of that itch.

P.S. In this thread his posts have consisted of little more than complaints, misreads & bragging.

[whymeohgodno]

GTL is really helpful, idk what cwolf is smoking.

[CanadianWolf]

Maybe elsewhere, but not in this thread.

[scammedhard]

It's nice to see a first year law student with so much wisdom. Might want to check for head lice. Take care of that itch.

P.S. In this thread his posts have consisted of little more than complaints, misreads & bragging.

Maybe, but you are not addressing his main point at all: law schools could have lied to you just as they could have lied to USNews. So, how do you know that the data is real and reliable?

[CanadianWolf]

Whose main point ? As for your other question, we don't but at least one law school stated that it would be corrected with USNews. Better than complaining & making accusations without doing anything to verify.

[beachbum]

It's nice to see a first year law student with so much wisdom. Might want to check for head lice. Take care of that itch.

P.S. In this thread his posts have consisted of little more than complaints, misreads & bragging.

Maybe, but you are not addressing his main point at all: law schools could have lied to you just as they could have lied to USNews. So, how do you know that the data is real and reliable?

Yes, how far down does the rabbit hole go?

[CanadianWolf]

Exactly. The more inquiries, the more errors & misreporting & lack of fact checking (especially by USNews) is revealed. This is the main reason lawschooltransparency gets support, but some may be uncomfortable with LST's use of assumptions--even though stated.