Top Law Schools

From the west coast so no real ties to either area. GW seems to have much more opportunities but I also don't want to be saddled with 200k debt and a job that won't pay it off in this ubercompetitive DC market.
Take the discount at Illinois or take my chances at GW?

THoughts appreciated.

Illinois assuming you are okay with ending up in the midwest.

got no problem with the midwest but just worried about job prospects down there. have to compete with u of chicago and NW could make life difficult if i dont make the top of the class. Just think GW might give more options nationally - just scared of the debt in this market

Illinois' admissions dean, although biased, said that anyone in the top half of the class at UIUC should have a strong shot at Chicago Biglaw. I honestly think that the Chicago legal market will start to show signs of recovery by 2014, and although it won't be 2005 levels or whenever it was amazing, you have a good chance at a great job. GW has tough competition with GULC, UVA and other T14 students also.

UIUC.


Also, wasn't there a recent ATL article on how someone should choose this school with a scholly over GeorgeTTTown at sticker?


ETA: Add poll... most people don't want to read more than the OP and hit a button. Typing responses is often too much effort for us.

I would put a poll up, curious what TLS says but I couldn't stomach that kind of debt outside of the T14 100k v 220k

firemed wrote:UIUC.


Also, wasn't there a recent ATL article on how someone should choose this school with a scholly over GeorgeTTTown at sticker?


ETA: Add poll... most people don't want to read more than the OP and hit a button. Typing responses is often too much effort for us.

The ATL article compared Vandy half ride to UIUC full ride to work in the south. Still chose UIUC.

UIUC by a lot

lsatz wrote:got no problem with the midwest but just worried about job prospects down there. have to compete with u of chicago and NW could make life difficult if i dont make the top of the class. Just think GW might give more options nationally - just scared of the debt in this market

GW isn't a national school and because it is in DC it has to compete with every single T14, not just two of them.

bk187 wrote:

lsatz wrote:got no problem with the midwest but just worried about job prospects down there. have to compete with u of chicago and NW could make life difficult if i dont make the top of the class. Just think GW might give more options nationally - just scared of the debt in this market

GW isn't a national school and because it is in DC it has to compete with every single T14, not just two of them.

From what I've gathered (had to make a similar decision) GW has slightly more value than UIUC but not really more than 20-30k. It's not looked at as a national school or from the perspective of big law hiring committees (I spoke to a friends relative who is on a one for a V50) anywhere near on par with GULC in DC.

Not worth sticker especially with DC COL

bk187 wrote:

lsatz wrote:got no problem with the midwest but just worried about job prospects down there. have to compete with u of chicago and NW could make life difficult if i dont make the top of the class. Just think GW might give more options nationally - just scared of the debt in this market

GW isn't a national school and because it is in DC it has to compete with every single T14, not just two of them.

this

This is not close. UIUC in a landslide.

definitely seems like Illinois is the safer/wiser move here. While we are on the subject, is my 3.1 / 173 from Georgetown worth a better law school? Stuck on the waitlists at Cornell, UCLA, BU and BC currently - reapply next year? Or still won't get in? Stick with Illinois then?
Thanks again - losing sleep

lsatz wrote:definitely seems like Illinois is the safer/wiser move here. While we are on the subject, is my 3.1 / 173 from Georgetown worth a better law school? Stuck on the waitlists at Cornell, UCLA, BU and BC currently - reapply next year? Or still won't get in? Stick with Illinois then?
Thanks again - losing sleep

You can definitely get into some of those schools. You could probably also ED to UVA or NW.

lsatz wrote:definitely seems like Illinois is the safer/wiser move here. While we are on the subject, is my 3.1 / 173 from Georgetown worth a better law school? Stuck on the waitlists at Cornell, UCLA, BU and BC currently - reapply next year? Or still won't get in? Stick with Illinois then?
Thanks again - losing sleep

Yeah... I would expect to get into one or more of those schools with that score, honestly. Stick with UIUC until one of them lets you off the waitlist would be my advice.

firemed wrote:

lsatz wrote:definitely seems like Illinois is the safer/wiser move here. While we are on the subject, is my 3.1 / 173 from Georgetown worth a better law school? Stuck on the waitlists at Cornell, UCLA, BU and BC currently - reapply next year? Or still won't get in? Stick with Illinois then?
Thanks again - losing sleep

Yeah... I would expect to get into one or more of those schools with that score, honestly. .

You never know.

Hannibal wrote:

firemed wrote:

lsatz wrote:definitely seems like Illinois is the safer/wiser move here. While we are on the subject, is my 3.1 / 173 from Georgetown worth a better law school? Stuck on the waitlists at Cornell, UCLA, BU and BC currently - reapply next year? Or still won't get in? Stick with Illinois then?
Thanks again - losing sleep

Yeah... I would expect to get into one or more of those schools with that score, honestly. .

You never know.

Good point. Yeah...

romothesavior wrote:

lsatz wrote:definitely seems like Illinois is the safer/wiser move here. While we are on the subject, is my 3.1 / 173 from Georgetown worth a better law school? Stuck on the waitlists at Cornell, UCLA, BU and BC currently - reapply next year? Or still won't get in? Stick with Illinois then?
Thanks again - losing sleep

You can definitely get into some of those schools. You could probably also ED to UVA or NW.

The bolded.

JamMasterJ wrote:Illinois' admissions dean, although biased, said that anyone in the top half of the class at UIUC should have a strong shot at Chicago Biglaw.

LOL. It was 17.95% of UIUC that got NLJ250 firms out of the class of 2010. And class of 2010 did a shitload better than class of 2011 (c/o 2010 OCI was in 2008, which was before shit really started hitting rock bottom in terms of legal hiring). I'd wager that c/o 2011 at UIUC will be around 10% at NLJ250 firms (there were only 250 SA spots total at all Chicago NALP firms, including IP firms, last summer).

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

With that said, UIUC is the better choice here.

XxSpyKEx wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Illinois' admissions dean, although biased, said that anyone in the top half of the class at UIUC should have a strong shot at Chicago Biglaw.

LOL. It was 17.95% of UIUC that got NLJ250 firms out of the class of 2010. And class of 2010 did a shitload better than class of 2011 (c/o 2010 OCI was in 2008, which was before shit really started hitting rock bottom in terms of legal hiring). I'd wager that c/o 2011 at UIUC will be around 10% at NLJ250 firms (there were only 250 SA spots total at all Chicago NALP firms, including IP firms, last summer).

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

With that said, UIUC is the better choice here.

Yeah seriously. Anyone in the top half strong shot at biglaw? Who do they think they are? CCN?

whymeohgodno wrote:

XxSpyKEx wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Illinois' admissions dean, although biased, said that anyone in the top half of the class at UIUC should have a strong shot at Chicago Biglaw.

LOL. It was 17.95% of UIUC that got NLJ250 firms out of the class of 2010. And class of 2010 did a shitload better than class of 2011 (c/o 2010 OCI was in 2008, which was before shit really started hitting rock bottom in terms of legal hiring). I'd wager that c/o 2011 at UIUC will be around 10% at NLJ250 firms (there were only 250 SA spots total at all Chicago NALP firms, including IP firms, last summer).

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

With that said, UIUC is the better choice here.

Yeah seriously. Anyone in the top half strong shot at biglaw? Who do they think they are? CCN?

I’m actually surprised by the lack of candor in Dean Pless’s statement. I recall having a conversation with him when I was considering UIUC to transfer a couple years ago, and he practically laid it on the table that I would strike out at OCI. (I guess it goes without saying that I completely pulled UIUC off the table in terms of a school I would consider matriculating in if I were accepted.) The only way top half would even have a shot at biglaw (and still not a strong shot) would be if there was a complete economic turnaround by fall 2012, and large firms began to recruit the same as they did in 2007 (where a 1/3 of UIUC’s class was getting biglaw). But to even propose that as a realistic scenario is ludicrous. Biglaw hiring will probably never return to where it was back in 2007 (see, e.g., http://hosted.law.wisc.edu/wordpress/la ... bstein.pdf)

GW sticker is reaaaaaaaaaalllly expensive so...

XxSpyKEx wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Illinois' admissions dean, although biased, said that anyone in the top half of the class at UIUC should have a strong shot at Chicago Biglaw.

LOL. It was 17.95% of UIUC that got NLJ250 firms out of the class of 2010. And class of 2010 did a shitload better than class of 2011 (c/o 2010 OCI was in 2008, which was before shit really started hitting rock bottom in terms of legal hiring). I'd wager that c/o 2011 at UIUC will be around 10% at NLJ250 firms (there were only 250 SA spots total at all Chicago NALP firms, including IP firms, last summer).

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

With that said, UIUC is the better choice here.

Eh... I'm skeptical as to how much worse the c/o 2011 data will be. Probably a little, but not drastically worse. Yes, c/o 2010 did OCI in 2008, but the NLJ data isn't concerned with SAs, it represents the number of grads who actually worked there. The people who got no-offered aren't included, and there were a LOT of people who got no-offered in that class.

But yeah, I love Dean Pless, but no way does top half have a shot at Chicago biglaw. Top 25% maaaaaybe, and only top 5-10% have a shot at the top biglaw firms.

romothesavior wrote:

XxSpyKEx wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:Illinois' admissions dean, although biased, said that anyone in the top half of the class at UIUC should have a strong shot at Chicago Biglaw.

LOL. It was 17.95% of UIUC that got NLJ250 firms out of the class of 2010. And class of 2010 did a shitload better than class of 2011 (c/o 2010 OCI was in 2008, which was before shit really started hitting rock bottom in terms of legal hiring). I'd wager that c/o 2011 at UIUC will be around 10% at NLJ250 firms (there were only 250 SA spots total at all Chicago NALP firms, including IP firms, last summer).

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

With that said, UIUC is the better choice here.

Eh... I'm skeptical as to how much worse the c/o 2011 data will be. Probably a little, but not drastically worse. Yes, c/o 2010 did OCI in 2008, but the NLJ data isn't concerned with SAs, it represents the number of grads who actually worked there. The people who got no-offered aren't included, and there were a LOT of people who got no-offered in that class.

But yeah, I love Dean Pless, but no way does top half have a shot at Chicago biglaw. Top 25% maaaaaybe, and only top 5-10% have a shot at the top biglaw firms.

The 3rd year guy seemed to believe that it was more like top third, and you need to nail your interview (and better grades helps of course). That might have just been his firm.

Hannibal wrote:The 3rd year guy seemed to believe that it was more like top third, and you need to nail your interview (and better grades helps of course). That might have just been his firm.

As I always say re: WUSTL, top 1/3 might give you a shot if you bring something solid to the table, such as diversity or something really good on your resume (like 5 years in an investment banking firm). But top 1/3 is almost certainly not getting some white, straight-from-undergrad, liberal arts kid a biglaw job. That would be exceedingly rare. I imagine its the same at UIUC.