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Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:48 pm**

Deciding between a Levy from UPenn and Columbia ($75K).
A Levy is UPenn's highest named scholarship and includes full tuition and fees for 3 years (~$150K), faculty mentorship, various institutional support, and possible prestige boost in hiring.

My goal is most likely biglaw, with no geographic preference. The primary consideration is career prospects. I realize that Columbia has better numbers for biglaw...

But how does Regular CLS Student v. UPenn Levy Scholar stack up?

I realize that this is very #whitegirlproblems, so thanks for your responses.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:54 pm**

Seriously?

Sometimes threads like this make me wonder.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:55 pm**

Obviously Penn...

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:55 pm**

You should go to Penn, which, for the purposes of disclosure, is where I will be heading.

I just don't think the edge that Columbia gives you is worth 75k more. Think about it -- even if you don't get BigLaw at Penn, you have will have such little debt, probably around 60k, that you can easily pay it off through LRAP, etc.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:55 pm**

Veyron wrote:Seriously?

Sometimes threads like this make me wonder.

Make you wonder what? What it would be like if you got into cls?
But yeah I would prob choose penn here, op

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:56 pm**

I would take Penn if your goal is primarily to secure a biglaw job. You will be able to do so with a similar level of certainty at either school and you will have substantially less debt at Penn.

It's also nice to have a named full tuition scholarship on your resume.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:25 pm**

FOR

/thread

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:28 pm**

bk187 wrote:Obviously Penn...

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:36 pm**

I don't know what UPenn or Columbia are, but I'd take the money personally.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:38 pm**

Make you wonder what? What it would be like if you got into cls?
But yeah I would prob choose penn here, op

No skilz.

ahduth wrote:I don't know what UPenn or Columbia are, but I'd take the money personally.

Mad skilz.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:30 pm**

Wow. I'm surprised that the vote has been unanimously for Penn so far. I thought it would be closer.

Again: my primary consideration is getting biglaw.
It's undeniable that CLS places a higher percentage of its students in biglaw.
Does having the Levy on my app provide THAT much of a boost?

I got the Levy but there's no guarantee that I'll be near the top third. I can go to CLS and have a relatively lower class rank but still get biglaw.

I'm honestly 50/50 here. I just feel like I'm missing something because I certainly did not expect unanimous Penn.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:32 pm**

Undecided123 wrote:Wow. I'm surprised that the vote has been unanimously for Penn so far. I thought it would be closer.

Again: my primary consideration is getting biglaw.
It's undeniable that CLS places a higher percentage of its students in biglaw.
Does having the Levy on my app provide THAT much of a boost?

I got the Levy but there's no guarantee that I'll be near the top third. I can go to CLS and have a relatively lower class rank but still get biglaw.

I'm honestly 50/50 here. I just feel like I'm missing something because I certainly did not expect unanimous Penn.

I think the difference is smaller then you think. If you think you will be happier, do better etc etc at Columbia then choose that but in terms of a rational decision the difference in employment prospects definitely does not seem worth 75k to me.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:34 pm**

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:34 pm**

Undecided123 wrote:Wow. I'm surprised that the vote has been unanimously for Penn so far. I thought it would be closer.

Again: my primary consideration is getting biglaw.
It's undeniable that CLS places a higher percentage of its students in biglaw.
Does having the Levy on my app provide THAT much of a boost?

I got the Levy but there's no guarantee that I'll be near the top third. I can go to CLS and have a relatively lower class rank but still get biglaw.

I'm honestly 50/50 here. I just feel like I'm missing something because I certainly did not expect unanimous Penn.

Does CLS place better than Penn into biglaw? Probably, but only marginally so. Anywhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of grads at Penn/CLS aren't getting biglaw. Because the difference between these two schools is so small, it makes no sense to take out 150k in loans for CLS versus taking out half of that for Penn. If you miss out on biglaw, and it is definitely possible out of both schools, you will be much safer at Penn. Plus, even if you hit biglaw, you will be better off out at Penn.

CLS's marginally better placement is not worth paying double the money that you would at Penn.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:50 pm**

Undecided123 wrote:Wow. I'm surprised that the vote has been unanimously for Penn so far. I thought it would be closer.

Again: my primary consideration is getting biglaw.
It's undeniable that CLS places a higher percentage of its students in biglaw.
Does having the Levy on my app provide THAT much of a boost?

I got the Levy but there's no guarantee that I'll be near the top third. I can go to CLS and have a relatively lower class rank but still get biglaw.

I'm honestly 50/50 here. I just feel like I'm missing something because I certainly did not expect unanimous Penn.

Full disclosure--I'm going to Penn too.

I would take issue with the "undeniable" part of that statement above. If you want to work in NYC biglaw, Columbia might give you a boost. But if you look at the latest NLJ 250 statistics for law schools, CLS is 3rd (55% of graduates getting associate positions in the NLJ 250) and Penn is 4th (53.31% of graduates). The difference between the two is marginal at best. In my opinion, having the Levy on your resume might cancel that difference out altogether.

Bottom line--CLS might have the smallest of edges in placement, but definitely not $75K worth of an edge, or even close. I'd take the Levy and wave goodbye to that $75K in debt you're not going to have to worry about.

Edit: Add a poll?

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:53 pm**

I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:59 pm**

ahduth wrote:I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.

I know, especially given that like half of people are out of biglaw by year three and given that post tax, biglawyers in NYC make like 100k. Rational decision-making FTW.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:04 pm**

ahduth wrote:I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.

Not quite enough to satisfy the amt in controversy requirement for 28 USC 1332 diversity jx. Unless you take interest into account. Then it does.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:06 pm**

rad law wrote:
ahduth wrote:I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.
Not quite enough to satisfy the amt in controversy requirement for 28 USC 1332 diversity jx. Unless you take interest into account. Then it does.

180.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:08 pm**

thickfreakness wrote:
rad law wrote:
ahduth wrote:I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.
Not quite enough to satisfy the amt in controversy requirement for 28 USC 1332 diversity jx. Unless you take interest into account. Then it does.
180.

What the hell are you people talking about.

Also, I really should've applied to Penn. They seem to have given away a lot of money this year.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:10 pm**

ahduth wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
rad law wrote:
ahduth wrote:I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.
Not quite enough to satisfy the amt in controversy requirement for 28 USC 1332 diversity jx. Unless you take interest into account. Then it does.
180.
What the hell are you people talking about.

Also, I really should've applied to Penn. They seem to have given away a lot of money this year.

See generally http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBTba2J6OKI

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:26 pm**

ahduth wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
rad law wrote:
ahduth wrote:I love these people who have no concept of how much 75,000 dollars of debt is.
Not quite enough to satisfy the amt in controversy requirement for 28 USC 1332 diversity jx. Unless you take interest into account. Then it does.
180.
What the hell are you people talking about.

Also, I really should've applied to Penn. They seem to have given away a lot of money this year.

I dunno if they actually have been giving more this year. I think levy recipients keep turning it down so the levys keep getting passed along to the next-in-line and thus reposted haha

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:36 pm**

yeah it makes me wish that i hadn't said yse already.

not that it hink i could have gotten it. but still. would have been interesting

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:04 pm**

[/quote]

What the hell are you people talking about.

Also, I really should've applied to Penn. They seem to have given away a lot of money this year.[/quote]
I dunno if they actually have been giving more this year. I think levy recipients keep turning it down so the levys keep getting passed along to the next-in-line and thus reposted haha[/quote]

Nah, I think its because apps are down this year. I see people with my numbers getting a good deal more money than I did.

Posted: **Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:12 pm**

Veyron wrote: Nah, I think its because apps are down this year. I see people with my numbers getting a good deal more money than I did.

Yeah probably that too. But I know or have seen on TLS a good 5 or 6 levy people that turned it down this cycle :\

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