Torn between HLS and SLS Forum

[Law Sauce]

I wouldn't put too much weight on first impressions at ASWs. I dont think that it is a good indicator of how well you will like it at a school. All a ASW is is a school trying to sell itself to you. I am totally shocked that HLS didnt try really hard to sell themselves as much as Standord does. Does this mean there aren't interesting people there and that you wouldnot enjoy your experience there? No.

If there is something tangible that you hated while you were there, then maybe you may have had a decent impression of what it would be like there, but if it was just a vague feeling, that seems like an odd reason to turn Harvard down. Personal fit is important, but its hard to get any sense of that at ASW. my .02.

Of course, both schools are incredibility good schools, so either way you will be in a great situation.

[Keeper1125]

Clearly we met with different students/dined with different groups, because the current students I met were almost unequivocally thrilled with the university. I mostly met with PI/human rights people fwiw.

[halfmanhalfmach]

Non-Chalant1, have you actually gotten in to either school? I got into both, and I got a pretty different impression from talking to lots of students who have actually gone through the ropes. Two years isn't very long ago, and I linked to the HLR article not because its the most pertinent piece of information I received, but rather because it's a public statement straight from the horse's mouth.

[pride09]

I'll chime in too, just because I was making a very similar decision--interested in practicing East Coast and never really gave Stanford much thought at first. But it really does seem to me that Harvard's advantage starts and ends with that magical lay prestige. The enthusiasm of the students, the accessibility of the professors, the vision of the dean, the aesthetics of the campus and weather--from my visits and research Stanford has an advantage in every category. I sent my deposit to SLS yesterday.

I'm a little surprised by the debate over interdisciplinary opportunities. Taking courses from other schools with the university is at the very heart of what Dean Kramer (Stanford) believes in. It's why they recently changed from the semester to quarter system--to make it even easier for law students to take classes on the same calendar as the rest of the school. As for the Kennedy School, I'm actually planning to pursue the joint JD-MPP between SLS and HKS. Seems to me like an opportunity to get the best of both worlds.

[dkt4]

they'll allow you do do a joint SLS JD-HKS MPP? have you talked to anyone about it? that is potentially game-changing for me lol

[pride09]

they'll allow you do do a joint SLS JD-HKS MPP? have you talked to anyone about it? that is potentially game-changing for me lol

Yes, I have spoken with current students who are doing it and with the SLS joint degree coordinator. It had a significant impact on my decision too.

Stanford doesn't publicize the joint degree very prominently on their end for some reason, but if you go to the HKS site you can see they list a concurrent degree with Stanford and Yale Law. The current SLS students I talked to were trying to decide between pursuing a joint Masters with HKS and with the Princeton Woodrow Wilson School. The programs are very different and worth looking into. I'm planning to take the GRE this summer and apply to both, but I think HKS is better fit for me.

[DoubleChecks]

As Na already mentioned, LPs are not mandatory at HLS anymore (they were for like a year or two i think). And to make OP feel better, I have Loved my time at HLS. Sure there are a few things here and there that i dont like coughHarvardITcough, but for the most part, it has been a great experience.

The weather up here sucks, but you get used to it. I mean, I'm from TX and the winters did not seem that bad to me (just long...). I see a lot of people mentioning accessibility when it comes to professors...yes SLS is smaller, but i wouldnt say HLS profs arent accessible. tbh, I think if you ever want to get to know a prof, you can (quite easily) for most profs, either here or SLS. The cap on that really isnt the school, it is actually student ambition and will.

But of course, OP, you already know what to do. Visit SLS then decide on where you're happier. Don't give too much weight to the HLS ASW experience -- this is a pretty large school, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. I've heard people say they only met students who were not excited about HLS...and I've heard other people say they only met students who were excited about HLS. Because there is such a large student population, you can really find your own group. Gravitate toward those that you feel comfortable with. I'm always scared with the idea of a small class -- what if there are few students i get along with! lol

[Non-Chalant1]

Non-Chalant1, have you actually gotten in to either school? I got into both, and I got a pretty different impression from talking to lots of students who have actually gone through the ropes. Two years isn't very long ago, and I linked to the HLR article not because its the most pertinent piece of information I received, but rather because it's a public statement straight from the horse's mouth.

Whether or not I got into both SLS and HLS is not something I find to be particularly relevant. But no, I never even applied to Stanford. I really had no desire to study on the West Coast. But with that said, I have the utmost respect for Stanford and I don't feel like I portrayed it negatively in anyway. THe statement you posted (if I remember it right) was simply talking about inefficiency not that the opportunities weren't there. I never said that Stanford's process wasn't more streamlined and even encouraged. I was just telling the guy that HLS/HKS is a better combo for his interest and A) it's much easier to get in once you're already in the law school and they will accept your LSAT score in the lieu of the other exam (if I remember right). And B) much of the law school classes are cross-listed with other schools anyway so it wouldn't be a situation where someone who is already in the school has first serve necessarily. I said Stanford seems to be more "forward thinking", etc. But I could not agree with the notion that all Harvard offers is "it's name". People on TLS propagate that myth and sound foolish to me whenever they do so. Based on where I'm from naturally I know more about HLS and have numerous connects with Harvard and their PI students are as happy as anyone I've come across. Just quickly search Harvard's course guide and you'll see how many courses are cross-listed amongst the schools regardless (in that they are a b-school and law school class for example). I mean you said 10 credits is the max while ignoring that most of the courses in the other schools are 1 credit. I can research that more, but really you have an issue with 10 courses? Who in the world would be taking 10 courses outside of HLS? If they convert them differently or something then that could be an issue, I admit my ignorance on that end. I just know that everyone I know at HKS or anything else always has courses that are 1 credit...and I just checked the course guide and they're 1 credit. Obviously I understand that you do have to be approved before hand and you must justify why you want to take the courses. Maybe, DoubleCheeks can clear that up. I never said it was easier. I just was talking about that one person's interests.

The SLS-HKS thing is done though. That's very true.

[unc0mm0n1]

Non-Chalant1, have you actually gotten in to either school? I got into both, and I got a pretty different impression from talking to lots of students who have actually gone through the ropes. Two years isn't very long ago, and I linked to the HLR article not because its the most pertinent piece of information I received, but rather because it's a public statement straight from the horse's mouth.

What does that have to do with anything? I got in to Harvard, didn't apply to Stanford, but did get into a school that is very similar in size and prospects (Yale), and I know just about as much as you do (which isn't that much). We're all going from our experiences with the school and from research we did. Unless you actually attended both schools, I'm not sure how you getting in makes you anymore knowledgeable about anything than the rest of us.

[abl]

10 credits outside of the law school is actually a pretty tight restriction. 1 credit classes are pretty unsubstantial, so even if you could hypothetically find and take ten of them, that's not exactly a great "interdisciplinary opportunity." In practice, a 10 credit limit will almost certainly equate to a 3-4 class limit, even if it may be hypothetically possible to up your total number by taking more 1 credit "classes" (I use the term loosely as you're not going to learn much in a 1 credit class). That said, I'm guessing that cross-listed classes don't count towards this limit so it's probably not quite as bad as it sound. If you're happy with your interdisciplinary experience being comprised of a heavy load of the Law & ___ classes then I wouldn't stress the 10 credit limit. If you want to explore anthro classes taught by an anthro professor and largely comprised of anthro students, this is going to be a problem for you.

re: getting into courses at Stanford, it's very easy to get into *most* (but not all) non-law school classes at Stanford. In general, professors in those classes are thrilled to have law students and will give you priority over almost everyone else; law students are known to be among the hardest working students in the school, we're a pretty rare commodity, and we offer a perspective that is both unique and valuable. And, because the school emphasizes interdisciplinary studies so significantly (and most profs buy into it), chances are your professor is looking for unique and valuable new opinions in the class. I'm guessing far fewer professors at other schools feel this way. That isn't to say that you will get priority in enrollment in ALL classes outside of the law school. Almost certainly if you're one of the many students to takes loads of classes outside of the law school, you'll find yourself unable to get into one or two. But that's going to be the case anywhere you go. I have difficulty imagining that it's easier to do interdisciplinary studies anywhere outside of Stanford, and whoever said that registering for non law school classes at Stanford is difficult is just flat out incorrect.

[Borhas]

hate these threads...

a general rule in life: If you are having a really a hard time deciding, it's probably because you have two equally good or bad choices. At that point you can fret over the slightest marginal benefit you would receive from one choice over the other, you could even speculate about factors you can't take into account... OR you could just man up and make a decision, because the stress and neuroticism outweighs the marginal benefit you are trying to find by splitting hairs.

Why even create this thread if you have yet to go to the SLS ASW, don't you think that you could probably get a better idea then?

Don't mean to be harsh... but seriously...

[Non-Chalant1]

nvm...SMH

[abl]

Wow, just wow. Non-Chalant, I'm going to go ahead and guess that you are not at either HLS or SLS. OP--you would be wise to separate the advise of 0Ls on this thread from students who are actually in law school.

Maybe the cross-listed courses are enough for the OP, and maybe they are not. Maybe three classes will be enough and maybe they won't be (if the OP is looking for a truly interdisciplinary experience, three classes isn't gonna cut it). The question isn't so much whether your or I think that the OP will be fine, but rather what interdisciplinary opportunities HLS and SLS offer. Regardless of where it's cross-listed, a cross-listed class is not the same as a class that's solely listed in a department. The way the class is taught, as well as your classmates, will be significantly different. This is the case for business school classes, anthro classes, or any other classes (and, *gasp*, the OP may find that there are classes outside of the business school that are helpful for a business education). Maybe the whole idea of sampling the expertise of other disciplines is over-rated, in which case the fact that SLS has far superior interdisciplinary opportunities shouldn't matter much. But that's a separate topic.

[Non-Chalant1]

Wow, just wow. Non-Chalant, I'm going to go ahead and guess that you are not at either HLS or SLS. OP--you would be wise to separate the advise of 0Ls on this thread from students who are actually in law school.

Maybe the cross-listed courses are enough for the OP, and maybe they are not. Maybe three classes will be enough and maybe they won't be (if the OP is looking for a truly interdisciplinary experience, three classes isn't gonna cut it). The question isn't so much whether your or I think that the OP will be fine, but rather what interdisciplinary opportunities HLS and SLS offer. Regardless of where it's cross-listed, a cross-listed class is not the same as a class that's solely listed in a department. The way the class is taught, as well as your classmates, will be significantly different. This is the case for business school classes, anthro classes, or any other classes (and, *gasp*, the OP may find that there are classes outside of the business school that are helpful for a business education). Maybe the whole idea of sampling the expertise of other disciplines is over-rated, in which case the fact that SLS has far superior interdisciplinary opportunities shouldn't matter much. But that's a separate topic.

I was not responding to the OP this is what you don't understand. I was talking to dk. This is why your post is irrelevant to our convo. I asked him why b-school because he was considering a dual-degree and also perhaps one with the Kennedy School. That is where the convo is at. I have not ONCE referenced the OP in this thread aside from LOL@JD's approach. This is what you're missing. Then some random person posted a link to it being impossible to cross-list at Harvard when I know people who have/are doing it. That's about it. Please read before posting. I don't know why I replied again. You're right though...I am an 0L....maybe that's why I am able to understand that the OP was talking about government and dk was talking about business and that they're not the same person.

[DoubleChecks]

Wow, just wow. Non-Chalant, I'm going to go ahead and guess that you are not at either HLS or SLS. OP--you would be wise to separate the advise of 0Ls on this thread from students who are actually in law school.

Maybe the cross-listed courses are enough for the OP, and maybe they are not. Maybe three classes will be enough and maybe they won't be (if the OP is looking for a truly interdisciplinary experience, three classes isn't gonna cut it). The question isn't so much whether your or I think that the OP will be fine, but rather what interdisciplinary opportunities HLS and SLS offer. Regardless of where it's cross-listed, a cross-listed class is not the same as a class that's solely listed in a department. The way the class is taught, as well as your classmates, will be significantly different. This is the case for business school classes, anthro classes, or any other classes (and, *gasp*, the OP may find that there are classes outside of the business school that are helpful for a business education). Maybe the whole idea of sampling the expertise of other disciplines is over-rated, in which case the fact that SLS has far superior interdisciplinary opportunities shouldn't matter much. But that's a separate topic.

dont care/have not been paying attention to the argument on this at all, but lulwut to the bolded haha. not saying you're wrong, just troll much?

[abl]

How's that trolling? On the flip side, Harvard has far more classes to choose from. There are real differences between the schools; pretending like there aren't doesn't get us anywhere.

[DoubleChecks]

How's that trolling? On the flip side, Harvard has far more classes to choose from. There are real differences between the schools; pretending like there aren't doesn't get us anywhere.

I'm a bit unsure whether you can definitively say SLS has "far superior interdisciplinary opportunities" compared to HLS. You saying it in such a matter of fact tone seems sort of like SLS-trolling to me. Saying Harvard has far more classes to choose from would not be trolling because that could just be factually proven (like saying SLS has a larger sq. ft campus -- not necessarily true, just throwing an example out).

[abl]

Ok, I'm sorry. SLS has a greater number of interdisciplinary opportunities, and fewer obstacles to taking advantage of those opportunities.

[Non-Chalant1]

Cheeks check your PM.

[chup]

Either school will be good for those career goals. This was the credited response:

If you like what you see at Stanford when you visit, then go there.

Also, my roommate is taking Sustainable Farming and getting credit for it. If that doesn't speak to interdisciplinarity, I don't know what does.

[dkt4]

i'm assuming that's at stanford?

[chup]

i'm assuming that's at stanford?

Yes indeed. Obviously that's not typical, but as an actual joint-degree student here I can assure you that the law school facilitates interdiscplinarity to a degree that would be hard to top.