Top Law Schools

So, I'm not too sure exactly what I want to do although I do want to keep the option of BigLaw at a major city open (LA, NY, DC). I was born in Philly so I have a personal affinity to Penn (although I moved out when I was young). Penn has been my dream school since the beginning of the cycle. However, I do not want to make an irrational decision based on my emotional sentiments though. I know for sure though I would be happier at Penn and Philly (visited both Philly and NY many times). Further, I have family in NY from whom I want to be distanced from law school as they may become a distraction to me. Penn gave me $52,000 in scholarships and NYU have me $35,500. Would I be making a stupid decision if I chose Penn? TLS decide for me!

I think you should go to Penn. Reasons:

1. When you factor NYC's higher COL, Penn comes out to be about 27-30k cheaper, which is a good amount of money.

2. In terms of biglaw, Penn & NYU are more peer schools than anything else. You are not hurting your career prospects at all in this regard by going to Penn. Just compare NLJ250+Art. III clerkship numbers for the schools.

3. You clearly sound like you have a strong personal preference for Philly and Penn. Why not go where you'd be happiest?

TLSNYC wrote:I think you should go to Penn. Reasons:

1. When you factor NYC's higher COL, Penn comes out to be about 27-30k cheaper, which is a good amount of money.

2. In terms of biglaw, Penn & NYU are more peer schools than anything else. You are not hurting your career prospects at all in this regard by going to Penn. Just compare NLJ250+Art. III clerkship numbers for the schools.

3. You clearly sound like you have a strong personal preference for Philly and Penn. Why not go where you'd be happiest?

Thanks for reassuring me. As for #2 though, how much do you think this is due to self-selection? I know NYU ppl love PI.

Taking Penn over NYU at equal cost isn't a stupid decision if there are personal reasons to factor in. Taking it at far less cost is even more reasonable.

Don't let TLS's T6 mentality get to you.

I chose Penn over NYU

dpk711 wrote:

TLSNYC wrote:I think you should go to Penn. Reasons:

1. When you factor NYC's higher COL, Penn comes out to be about 27-30k cheaper, which is a good amount of money.

2. In terms of biglaw, Penn & NYU are more peer schools than anything else. You are not hurting your career prospects at all in this regard by going to Penn. Just compare NLJ250+Art. III clerkship numbers for the schools.

3. You clearly sound like you have a strong personal preference for Philly and Penn. Why not go where you'd be happiest?

Thanks for reassuring me. As for #2 though, how much do you think this is due to self-selection? I know NYU ppl love PI.

I'm sure that NYU's NLJ250 could've been higher if more students wanted BigLaw, but honestly, I don't wanna get into that discussion since people far more informed than me have been going back and forth about it in other threads at earlier points. Bottom line: Penn's much higher placement in biglaw could certainly be attributed to self-selection into private sector vs public sector, but I have a feeling that if all the public sector folks at NYU went for biglaw, the percentage actually getting it would be similar to what it is at Penn, not much higher which is what the TLS-T6 myth would have you believe.

For disclosure, I will be attending Penn this fall. I also picked it over NYU (and UChicago); oddly enough, I had almost exact same scholarship offers, except 2-3k LESS from both Penn & NYU.

bk187 wrote:Taking Penn over NYU at equal cost isn't a stupid decision if there are personal reasons to factor in. Taking it at far less cost is even more reasonable.

Don't let TLS's T6 mentality get to you.

This. Go to Penn.

TLSNYC wrote:TLS-T6 myth

It isn't so much a myth but that (at least pre-ITE) top firms hired much more heavily from CCN than from the schools below them, or at least that's what I have heard from other people.

But now with ITE shitting on everybody's dreams, these schools don't offer significant advantages over the others in regards to getting biglaw to pay off sticker price debt.

Dany wrote:

bk187 wrote:Taking Penn over NYU at equal cost isn't a stupid decision if there are personal reasons to factor in. Taking it at far less cost is even more reasonable.

Don't let TLS's T6 mentality get to you.

This. Go to Penn.

+2

tea_drinker wrote:

Dany wrote:

bk187 wrote:Taking Penn over NYU at equal cost isn't a stupid decision if there are personal reasons to factor in. Taking it at far less cost is even more reasonable.

Don't let TLS's T6 mentality get to you.

This. Go to Penn.

+2

+3

If I could vote for Penn again, I would.

yngblkgifted wrote:If I could vote for Penn again, I would.

I usually just post and don't bother to vote in the poll but since you said this I decided to cast a vote for Penn. So you kind of did.

So is Penn a peer of NYU?

dpk711 wrote:So is Penn a peer of NYU?

If you're talking about the private sector, CCNP

willwilliams1334 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:So is Penn a peer of NYU?

If you're talking about the private sector, CCNP

Nice necro. Trolling from the grave!

I don't see anything trolling about that statement

willwilliams1334 wrote:I don't see anything trolling about that statement

Just relax with the Penn trolling already. Its like you are a paid spokesperson.

law2015 wrote:

willwilliams1334 wrote:I don't see anything trolling about that statement

Just relax with the Penn trolling already. Its like you are a paid spokesperson.

For srs. & change ur tar, Will was the one who was west philadelphia born and raised.

I have this decision as well, except the money's the same (though obviously NYU carries a higher cost of living). Besides "it's ranked higher!" what's really the pro-NYU argument? Better if you do something other than biglaw, about the same otherwise? Is that fair?

georgeconstanza wrote:I have this decision as well, except the money's the same (though obviously NYU carries a higher cost of living). Besides "it's ranked higher!" what's really the pro-NYU argument? Better if you do something other than biglaw, about the same otherwise? Is that fair?

No. NYU almost certainly has the edge for NYC biglaw as well. If you want to do anything in NYC, NYU over Penn at equal cost every time.

OP: I was in the same position three years ago, and I chose NYU. No regrets. The difference isn't at median, but at the very top end: for the best clerkships, the best jobs, and the best academic positions, NYU has a substantial edge. The feeder judge for whom I will be clerking has hired one Penn grad in the last ten years; seven from NYU. My firm had 11 SAs from NYU, 3 from Penn. While there are some narrow exceptions--D.C. firms, like W&C, recruit more heavily from Penn than NYU--there is, in general, a real gap for top-end jobs. Whether that is worth $20k to you is a different question.

anli wrote:OP: I was in the same position three years ago, and I chose NYU. No regrets. The difference isn't at median, but at the very top end: for the best clerkships, the best jobs, and the best academic positions, NYU has a substantial edge. The feeder judge for whom I will be clerking has hired one Penn grad in the last ten years; seven from NYU. My firm had 11 SAs from NYU, 3 from Penn. While there are some narrow exceptions--D.C. firms, like W&C, recruit more heavily from Penn than NYU--there is, in general, a real gap for top-end jobs. Whether that is worth $20k to you is a different question.

Your premise may be correct, but your proffered statistical evidence could be very skewed for a variety of reasons. Judges and firms all have favorites for different reasons. You are supposed to view things in aggregate. Class size, regional self-selection, and other factors are also issues. It makes sense to conclude that NYU is better for NY opportunities. But you shouldn't equate top-end with NY. That's where most of the jobs are, but that doesn't make them top-end.

^ That and, of course, there are a lot more kids at NYU so we would expect the aggrigate numbers of NYU kids in any given position to be higher. Honestly, I don't get why this is such a hard concept for people to understand.

Veyron wrote:^ That and, of course, there are a lot more kids at NYU so we would expect the aggrigate numbers of NYU kids in any given position to be higher. Honestly, I don't get why this is such a hard concept for people to understand.

Some people do commit this flaw, but I think a lot of the time people are taking class sizes into account (i.e. NYU places 2x or more in certain firms, and NYU is not that much bigger than Penn).

soj wrote:

Veyron wrote:^ That and, of course, there are a lot more kids at NYU so we would expect the aggrigate numbers of NYU kids in any given position to be higher. Honestly, I don't get why this is such a hard concept for people to understand.

Some people do commit this flaw, but I think a lot of the time people are taking class sizes into account (i.e. NYU places 2x or more in certain firms, and NYU is not that much bigger than Penn).

ABA data:

Penn 1st year: 249

249 x 2 = 498

NYU 1st year: 476

NYU is that much bigger, and you are not accounting for it.

Also, why don't we compile a list of hires for V10 firms' non-NYC offices?

willwilliams1334 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:So is Penn a peer of NYU?

If you're talking about the private sector, CCNP

+1. CCNP is spot on, even more so than PBV.