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I'm not completely sure what I want to do but I do want to keep open the possibility of BigLaw (NLJ-250) at a major city (NY, DC, LA) open. TLS, decide for me!

GULC. You're sacrificing a small (but not insignificant) difference in biglaw chances for the ability to not be completely fucked over by debt payments if you end up missing biglaw.

Penn/Cornell/NYU debtloads are too large compared to GULC and Vandy has worse NYC/DC/LA placement compared to GULC (even though Vandy/GULC are comparable cost).

bk187 wrote:GULC. You're sacrificing a small (but not insignificant) difference in biglaw chances for the ability to not be completely fucked over by debt payments if you end up missing biglaw.

Penn/Cornell/NYU debtloads are too large compared to GULC and Vandy has worse NYC/DC/LA placement compared to GULC (even though Vandy/GULC are comparable cost).

Someone, please disagree with this!

if you go to GULC and decide not to do biglaw but go PI their lrap will keep your payments super duper low

umm fail. didn't you say you were coming to upenn? we are no longer friends.

seriously i understand your dilemma. but come to penn

sonervous88 wrote:umm fail. didn't you say you were coming to upenn? we are no longer friends.

seriously i understand your dilemma. but come to penn

I'm 99 percent sure I'm going to Penn, I just wanted to reassure myself that I was not making a stupid decision.

dpk711 wrote:I'm 99 percent sure I'm going to Penn, I just wanted to reassure myself that I was not making a stupid decision.

I wouldn't say Penn with 52k is stupid, but I would say that GULC with double that is hands down a better deal.

Your Penn debt is still going to be over 150k whereas your GULC debt will be closer to 110k and thus much more feasible to repay within 10 years if you don't get biglaw.

bk187 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:I'm 99 percent sure I'm going to Penn, I just wanted to reassure myself that I was not making a stupid decision.

I wouldn't say Penn with 52k is stupid, but I would say that GULC with double that is hands down a better deal.

ur really starting to worry me, so you're implying that I'm probably making a financially unsound decision? It's just that I have heard horror stories about GULC on TLS about being the worst T14 and a complete joke for NLJ250 placement for a T14. Don't you think 50K more is worth a degree that I will have for my lifetime?

i do. w/e i took upenn with 75K over cornell with 135K ur making a fine decision

dpk711 wrote:

bk187 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:I'm 99 percent sure I'm going to Penn, I just wanted to reassure myself that I was not making a stupid decision.

I wouldn't say Penn with 52k is stupid, but I would say that GULC with double that is hands down a better deal.

ur really starting to worry me, so you're implying that I'm probably making a financially unsound decision? It's just that I have heard horror stories about GULC on TLS about being the worst T14 and a complete joke for NLJ250 placement for a T14. Don't you think 50K more is worth a degree that I will have for my lifetime?

Eh, I'd probably go to Penn.

I have heard horror stories about GULC's OCI. Something like the average number of interviews for this past OCI was 11 (this part is verifiable), and < 20% getting a job through OCI (rumors).

dpk711 wrote:ur really starting to worry me, so you're implying that I'm probably making a financially unsound decision? It's just that I have heard horror stories about GULC on TLS about being the worst T14 and a complete joke for NLJ250 placement for a T14. Don't you think 50K more is worth a degree that I will have for my lifetime?

You seem like you've let the anti-GULC trolls get to you. GULC is definitely a notch below the other T14's (and I would say it is a peer to Cornell) but that doesn't mean it is awful, it's still pretty damn good. A 35-40% chance at biglaw and the knowledge that you aren't going to be drowned in soulcrushing debt even if you miss it is definitely better than a 45-50% chance at biglaw and the knowledge that you will drown in soulcrushing debt if you miss it.

The point is that out of both of these schools there is a very high chance you end up missing out on biglaw and have to start at a firm where your starting salary is in the 40-60k range. The GULC debt means that even if that happens you can repay your debt within 10 years. The debt at Penn/NYU/Cornell would be nigh impossible to repay with the same salary in the same timeframe.

IMHO, for big city biglaw and considering the moneys:
Penn (52k) > GULC (105k) = Cornell (60k) > NYU (sticker) > Vandy (77k)

bk187 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:ur really starting to worry me, so you're implying that I'm probably making a financially unsound decision? It's just that I have heard horror stories about GULC on TLS about being the worst T14 and a complete joke for NLJ250 placement for a T14. Don't you think 50K more is worth a degree that I will have for my lifetime?

You seem like you've let the anti-GULC trolls get to you. GULC is definitely a notch below the other T14's (and I would say it is a peer to Cornell) but that doesn't mean it is awful, it's still pretty damn good. A 35-40% chance at biglaw and the knowledge that you aren't going to be drowned in soulcrushing debt even if you miss it is definitely better than a 45-50% chance at biglaw and the knowledge that you will drown in soulcrushing debt if you miss it.

The point is that out of both of these schools there is a very high chance you end up missing out on biglaw and have to start at a firm where your starting salary is in the 40-60k range. The GULC debt means that even if that happens you can repay your debt within 10 years. The debt at Penn/NYU/Cornell would be nigh impossible to repay with the same salary in the same timeframe.

I don't think it's 35-40%. I worked with a Georgetown student my 1L summer who said something like 20% got biglaw during OCI 2009...Also, fwiw, she told me the average number of interviews for OCI 2010 was 11. Georgetown is just way too big.

GULC dawg

dpk711 wrote:

bk187 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:I'm 99 percent sure I'm going to Penn, I just wanted to reassure myself that I was not making a stupid decision.

I wouldn't say Penn with 52k is stupid, but I would say that GULC with double that is hands down a better deal.

ur really starting to worry me, so you're implying that I'm probably making a financially unsound decision? It's just that I have heard horror stories about GULC on TLS about being the worst T14 and a complete joke for NLJ250 placement for a T14. Don't you think 50K more is worth a degree that I will have for my lifetime?

You probably are making a less-sound financial decision but you seem convinced that you want Penn, so go Penn. Say hi to JoePa for me. :p

cornellbeez wrote:I don't think it's 35-40%. I worked with a Georgetown student my 1L summer who said something like 20% got biglaw last OCI...Also, fwiw, she told me the average number of interviews was 11.

I've heard more like 1/3 (which I rounded up to account for people who bid on DC when they should have bid on NYC). 20% seems like insanity and a gross underestimation. It would be nice to have confirmation one way or the other.

I think people ITT are undervaluing the ability to have manageable debt in the case that you don't get biglaw (which has a very high chance of happening, even out of Penn).

FUCK GULC, those assholes put me on their WL. I voted Penn by the way.

bk187 wrote:

cornellbeez wrote:I don't think it's 35-40%. I worked with a Georgetown student my 1L summer who said something like 20% got biglaw last OCI...Also, fwiw, she told me the average number of interviews was 11.

I've heard more like 1/3 (which I rounded up to account for people who bid on DC when they should have bid on NYC). 20% seems like insanity and a gross underestimation. It would be nice to have confirmation one way or the other.

I think people ITT are undervaluing the ability to have manageable debt in the case that you don't get biglaw (which has a very high chance of happening, even out of Penn).

Well, fwiw, I agree with woeisme, and I think he is a 3L. (I am a 2L.) Georgetown is just too big and 11 interviews is peanuts when half, if not more, of your interviews will probably be resume drops anyway. I'd feel safer going into OCI at Penn/Cornell/NYU than GULC. Also, you can't just round up placement because you can't assume that NY firms have the spots for more GULC students. The GULC students that bid on DC may simply supplant the GULC students who got jobs in NY. Most NY offices have slashed their class sizes to 1/5-1/3 their size a couple years ago.

Also, I'm not quite too sure if NYU places better than Penn for biglaw.

I'd go to Penn simply because I think it is worth the extra money and the ability to take classes in Wharton.

dpk711 wrote:Also, I'm not quite too sure if NYU places better than Penn for biglaw.

Not significantly enough to justify paying sticker at NYU over Penn. NYU probably places marginally better generally though NYU will probably have an edge in terms of elite firms.

bk187 wrote:GULC. You're sacrificing a small (but not insignificant) difference in biglaw chances for the ability to not be completely fucked over by debt payments if you end up missing biglaw.

Penn/Cornell/NYU debtloads are too large compared to GULC and Vandy has worse NYC/DC/LA placement compared to GULC (even though Vandy/GULC are comparable cost).

+1

bk187 wrote:

dpk711 wrote:Also, I'm not quite too sure if NYU places better than Penn for biglaw.

Not significantly enough to justify paying sticker at NYU over Penn. NYU probably places marginally better generally though NYU will probably have an edge in terms of elite firms.

Yeah, I mean you can still get a 160k NYC job out of Penn. NYU will just give you more unusual options if you want them. Even those you can still get out of Penn if you're motivated. And the OP doesn't seem to be that certain of where he's headed anyhow.

Anyhow I voted Penn. The anti-GULC trolling on here has gotten to me for sure, but Penn is clearly a notch above. 50k is a lot of money, but you only get to play once.

Isn't it true that Penn actually places better than NYU for biglaw? This seems true especially with the new NLJ250 stats.

dpk711 wrote:Isn't it true that Penn actually places better than NYU for biglaw? This seems true especially with the new NLJ250 stats.

You're ignoring self selection of many NYU kids towards PI. You're also counting the difference between Penn and NYU for a single year as significant when it isn't (year to year fluctuations do happen).

As I said above, their absolute placement is fairly comparable but NYU has an edge with prestigious (e.g. the top Vault) firms.