LRAP at USC and UCLA Forum

[NotImportant]

I'm trying to decide between these two schools - both will be at sticker. I've done some reading into their respective LRAP programs and it seems as if USC's is a vastly better deal.

I'm just not confident in my own assessment of this and would greatly appreciate it if others felt like chiming in.

[NotImportant]

Anyone? Please.

[trudat15]

In my limited knowledge of LRAPs at UCLA and USC, I like the UCLA one better. UCLA forgives it's loans every 6 months as long as you stay in participating employment, whereas USC requires you to stay in PI for 5 years to get a full forgiveness of their LRAP loan to you. Otherwise, it's only partially forgiven (with the remaining amount subject to 7% interest rate). They add clerkships to their LRAP, but make it a point to let you know that this is NOT forgivable.

Also with UCLA, your expected contribution is $0 until like $55k salary mark (meaning, UCLA covers your IBR payments until you reach the $55k mark), whereas USC expects you to start contributing at like $40k. This is obviously only a big deal if you have a salary between $40-$55k.

Though USC has no cap, it seems at a certain point you would be responsible for the entire IBR payment anyways, so there is a de facto cap on their LRAP (I dont know what it is).

All in all, I like UCLA's better. Interested to see why you thought USC's was better. Again, this is just from reading TLS's guide to LRAPs, so info might be outdated or incorrect.

[NotImportant]

Thanks for the response!

My thinking behind USC's being better is that (as I understand it) it offers total forgiveness after 5 years whereas UCLA's doesn't kick in until 10 years. This seems like it would be a pretty significant advantage, but maybe not? I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on how this might play out and which would be more advantageous.

I'm thinking both in terms of career flexibility and money.

Thanks again!

[trudat15]

Thanks for the response!

My thinking behind USC's being better is that (as I understand it) it offers total forgiveness after 5 years whereas UCLA's doesn't kick in until 10 years. This seems like it would be a pretty significant advantage, but maybe not? I am really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on how this might play out and which would be more advantageous.

I'm thinking both in terms of career flexibility and money.

Thanks again!

It doesnt offer total debt forgiveness after 5 years. It offers forgiveness of the LRAP loan after 5 years. Your debt will still be there until year 10, when IBR kicks in and forgives it all.
In comparison, the UCLA LRAP offers forgiveness every 6 months of the LRAP loan.

For example, at USC, if you make 40k or under, you will have the benefit of zero expected contributions. USC will give you a loan to pay all of your IBR payments. If you remain in PI for 5 total years, the IBR loan that they have been giving for you are forgiven. If you are in PI for only one year, the IBR payments that they made for you are not forgiven, except 10%, and so forth depending on how many years you work in PI (with the remaining balance at a 7% interest rate). Your debt will NOT be forgiven by LRAP. It will be forgiven by IBR at the end of a 10 year period (25 if you dont do public service).

At UCLA, you can make up to 55k before you are expected to pay for anything under LRAP/IBR. If you make 50k, UCLA will give you a loan to cover your IBR payments. Every 6 months this loan will be forgiven, as long as you are still in qualifying employment. Then you'll get a new loan, which will be forgiven 6 months later again. Again, LRAP will NOT forgive your loans. Your loans are forgiven under the Federal IBR program.

So your perceived benefit of USC's LRAP is actually a MAJOR disadvantage when comparing the two LRAPs. Forgiveness every 6 months is MUCH better than partial forgiveness depending on how long you are in the program. Also, the income cap is much more generous at UCLA.

Hope that helps.

[NotImportant]

Awesome, thank you so much for the clarification. My entire reason for posting was that I was quite certain that I was misunderstanding some aspect of the program. Again, I really, really, appreciate your help!

[adt231]

I thought that UCLA got rid of its LRAP program- am I wrong about this?

[trudat15]

I thought that UCLA got rid of its LRAP program- am I wrong about this?

No idea - All my info is just based on TLS's guide to LRAP descriptions. If they indeed got rid of their LRAP, then this discussion is obviously a moot point

[adt231]

I thought that UCLA got rid of its LRAP program- am I wrong about this?

No idea - All my info is just based on TLS's guide to LRAP descriptions. If they indeed got rid of their LRAP, then this discussion is obviously a moot point

Yup. I just checked- it's gone.

http://cdn.law.ucla.edu/SiteCollectionD ... 0CHART.pdf
and
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=114719

[NotImportant]

Deleted. (hadn't seen above post before posting.)

[adt231]

Can anyone post definitively on this?

see the post above. Look at the asterisk next to the title on the first link. That's as definitive as you're going to get.

[trudat15]

That sucks. They must be one of the only top schools without any sort of LRAP whatsoever.

[NotImportant]

That sucks. They must be one of the only top schools without any sort of LRAP whatsoever.

Seriously.

Looks like USC's is better after all, which is more than a tad disappointing.

[trudat15]

That sucks. They must be one of the only top schools without any sort of LRAP whatsoever.

Seriously.

Looks like USC's is better after all, which is more than a tad disappointing.

Yeah. And USC's isnt good (if the TLS guide is updated and correct).

OP good luck with your decision. Are you for sure going into PI? Because remember that LRAPs only really come into play if you're doing PI (since USC is tied to IBR, it really only make sense if you are committed to 10 years of PI too).

[bk1]

I thought that UCLA got rid of its LRAP program- am I wrong about this?

No idea - All my info is just based on TLS's guide to LRAP descriptions. If they indeed got rid of their LRAP, then this discussion is obviously a moot point

Yup. I just checked- it's gone.

http://cdn.law.ucla.edu/SiteCollectionD ... 0CHART.pdf
and
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=114719

Why are people saying that it's gone? To me it seems to be saying that it now dovetails with IBR and that UCLA bases the amount its LRAP awards based upon your IBR payments. Or am I reading it wrong?

[Salty]

I thought that UCLA got rid of its LRAP program- am I wrong about this?

No idea - All my info is just based on TLS's guide to LRAP descriptions. If they indeed got rid of their LRAP, then this discussion is obviously a moot point

Yup. I just checked- it's gone.

http://cdn.law.ucla.edu/SiteCollectionD ... 0CHART.pdf
and
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=114719

Why are people saying that it's gone? To me it seems to be saying that it now dovetails with IBR and that UCLA bases the amount its LRAP awards based upon your IBR payments. Or am I reading it wrong?

yeah to me it seems they're just saying after the class of 2010 you don't have the option between the two forgiveness plans outlined....meaning you have to do the IBR option (at least this is my take on it)

[trudat15]

Why are people saying that it's gone? To me it seems to be saying that it now dovetails with IBR and that UCLA bases the amount its LRAP awards based upon your IBR payments. Or am I reading it wrong?

yeah to me it seems they're just saying after the class of 2010 you don't have the option between the two forgiveness plans outlined....meaning you have to do the IBR option (at least this is my take on it)

Hmm, I didnt read the PDF (just saw ppl say it was cancelled and assumed it was), but it does sound like you guys are right. If it just is the IBR dovetail program, it seems much more credited than USCs. The income cap for full support (assuming full IBR payments from the LRAP) is 60k and the income cap is 80k.

[aliasdancer]

FYI I spoke to UCLA's financial aid office last week about their LRAP program, so it definitely isn't canceled...

[NotImportant]

... so this has been informative. Only kidding, I still very much appreciate everyone's input!

[adt231]

FYI I spoke to UCLA's financial aid office last week about their LRAP program, so it definitely isn't canceled...

Not nominally, but it basically is substantively. Look at the .pdf above. The only LRAP option UCLA is now offering is their IBR Option (i.e. the one on the right is no longer available) and this option is quite similar to the federal option that you can qualify for no matter where you go to school. So, yea, they still have A LRAP program, just not much of one.

[trudat15]

FYI I spoke to UCLA's financial aid office last week about their LRAP program, so it definitely isn't canceled...

Not nominally, but it basically is substantively. Look at the .pdf above. The only LRAP option UCLA is now offering is their IBR Option (i.e. the one on the right is no longer available) and this option is quite similar to the federal option that you can qualify for no matter where you go to school. So, yea, they still have A LRAP program, just not much of one.

I dont know specifics on UCLA's IBR LRAP, so not entirely sure, but it looks like the IBR option, they still give you money to cover 100% of your IBR payments until 60k, and a portion to 80k. So it is IBR, but they're helping make the payments. That certainly qualifies as a LRAP program.
For reference, if I'm reading it right, it's similar to Chicago's new LRAP (though Chicago has a high cap of 80k at which you make no payments), which has been praised. Of course, I'm sure there are many details that are different (Spousal income/assets), but you get the drift...

[sphinctersayswut]

FYI I spoke to UCLA's financial aid office last week about their LRAP program, so it definitely isn't canceled...

Not nominally, but it basically is substantively. Look at the .pdf above. The only LRAP option UCLA is now offering is their IBR Option (i.e. the one on the right is no longer available) and this option is quite similar to the federal option that you can qualify for no matter where you go to school. So, yea, they still have A LRAP program, just not much of one.

UCLA still has an LRAP program. The IBR option referred to is not "similar" to the federal program, it works in conjunction with the federal program. As of 2011, the "IBR option" is the only option, partly because it simply works best for most people.

Under the federal program you have to make certain payments based on your income and your debt. The UCLA LRAP then either covers all, some, or none of this payment based on your income (you pay $0 for 55k income or less and pay 35% of anything you make above that up to a certain cut off limit). So for instance, under the federal program your payment might be $800. If you make less than $55k UCLA covers that entire payment. If you make $70k UCLA would cover a little less than $400 (70,000-55,000=15,000 over*.35=5,250/12monthly payments=$437 applicant responsibility). My math might be wrong but you get the idea.

[Edit: the contribution point now seems to be $60k]