Top Law Schools

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TheFactor wrote:My situation is very unique, but I will try to explain it as succinctly as possible. In addition to being a full-time student at a reputable university, I've played online poker semi-professionally (approx. 25-30 hours/wk) for the last two years. In that time, I've made enough $ to pay for all of my undergrad education and live relatively comfortably.

As the cycle has progressed, I find myself being much more hesitant about taking on six-figures worth of debt. If I can continue playing full-time for the next two years, however, I would easily make enough to pay for most, if not all, of my legal education.

So, my choices are basically the following: Vandy w/ $$ this year or sit out a year or two and reapply.

Numbers are 3.9/167

I know that I want to be a lawyer, so please don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I don't want to play poker for the rest of my life. As far as career goals, I would ideally like to work in a DA's office after graduation, so minimizing debt is important for me.

My only concern is that schools will not look favorably on the fact that I spent two years after graduation playing online poker. Am I overestimating the effect that this will have on my application or is this a legitimate concern? Would I risk an acceptance to a top20 school in the future by opting to sit out for the next two years?

Thanks for your help! And if you vote, please give your reasoning for why you voted the way you did if you don't mind. Also, feel free to PM me for more details.

I'd do poker for 2 years and be able to go to school for free. I don't think law schools will view it unfavorably at all, and actually I think it would be pretty interesting. I believe that Yale listed a "professional poker player" one of their annual posts where they discuss their new class every year. Law school will still be there in 2 years.

yeah law schools really will not care. if you are worried about losing your Vandy offer, see if you can at least defer for a year, make some more money, and you're half way to paying for it. If you know you want to do law, then there really is no problem waiting for two years, b/c when you start your semi-professional poker days are basically over.

I think I've seen this one before. It doesn't really matter what you do because the important thing is that you beat Teddy KGB, drop out of law school, and move to Vegas to compete in the WSOP.

fanmingrui wrote:I think I've seen this one before. It doesn't really matter what you do because the important thing is that you beat Teddy KGB, drop out of law school, and move to Vegas to compete in the WSOP.

TITCR. Going to law school also opens the possibility that your professor(s) will b-roll you, saving you the microstakes grind.

spicymeatball111 wrote:yeah law schools really will not care. if you are worried about losing your Vandy offer, see if you can at least defer for a year, make some more money, and you're half way to paying for it. If you know you want to do law, then there really is no problem waiting for two years, b/c when you start your semi-professional poker days are basically over.

i requested a deferral, but after talking with someone in the admissions department i doubt it will be granted

TheFactor wrote:My situation is very unique, but I will try to explain it as succinctly as possible. In addition to being a full-time student at a reputable university, I've played online poker semi-professionally (approx. 25-30 hours/wk) for the last two years. In that time, I've made enough $ to pay for all of my undergrad education and live relatively comfortably.

As the cycle has progressed, I find myself being much more hesitant about taking on six-figures worth of debt. If I can continue playing full-time for the next two years, however, I would easily make enough to pay for most, if not all, of my legal education.

So, my choices are basically the following: Vandy w/ $$ this year or sit out a year or two and reapply.

Numbers are 3.9/167

I know that I want to be a lawyer, so please don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I don't want to play poker for the rest of my life. As far as career goals, I would ideally like to work in a DA's office after graduation, so minimizing debt is important for me.

My only concern is that schools will not look favorably on the fact that I spent two years after graduation playing online poker. Am I overestimating the effect that this will have on my application or is this a legitimate concern? Would I risk an acceptance to a top20 school in the future by opting to sit out for the next two years?

Thanks for your help! And if you vote, please give your reasoning for why you voted the way you did if you don't mind. Also, feel free to PM me for more details.

I'm tempted to say sit out two years and play poker. Can totally understand the appeal of wanting to focus a limited amount of time playing poker to help minimize future debt, but not wanting to do it long term. Poker can be a ton of stress as your main source of income on a long term basis, especially since it doesn't come with basic job perks like health insurance (and even the best players go through stressful negative income weeks/months).

The only thing that would make me hesitate is this: are you reporting and paying taxes on your winnings? If you are, the job gains a lot more legitimacy. If you aren't, it just comes across as less legitimate. I doubt there's anyway a school can actually find this out, but if part (or all) of the focus of your personal statement is about being a semi-professional poker player, you can help dissipate the potential negative stigma by emphasizing how it WAS your job--you kept detailed accounts of winnings, you reported your income and paid owed taxes, you had set hours you played every week, etc. It also would help in allowing you to put that on your resume worry free, and be able to talk about it openly with law firms when your interviewing 1L and 2L year. Would also help when it comes to applying for the bar in the state you want to practice--they might think it's weird that you have a 2 year gap on your resume.

Maybe I'm just just overly worried though, and no one (schools, firms, etc) would think it's a big deal. For me, it would help in convincing others of how poker was a legitimate job though.

fanmingrui wrote:I think I've seen this one before. It doesn't really matter what you do because the important thing is that you beat Teddy KGB, drop out of law school, and move to Vegas to compete in the WSOP.

subtle Rounders trolling

Do you just troll online for atms or what? I've never understood people that do this. Congrats for making that much though.

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If you do mention poker in your application, resume, or personal statement do not mention "online". Professional poker is a sketchy profession already but "online" takes away all credibility. Most online poker sites are offshore and many of the players don't report their earnings. Tread carefully when mentioning this.

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TheFactor wrote:

powerlawyer06 wrote:If you do mention poker in your application, resume, or personal statement do not mention "online". Professional poker is a sketchy profession already but "online" takes away all credibility. Most online poker sites are offshore and many of the players don't report their earnings. Tread carefully when mentioning this.

This might be the layman's view of poker, but in reality it doesn't make much sense. Playing online poker in the United States is not illegal and it's actually much easier to get away with not paying taxes if you don't play online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act

I think most adcomms will see it as questionable at best and illegal at worst.

TheFactor wrote: Yeah, I completely understand your point. I do (although begrudgingly) pay taxes on my winnings every year, I keep down-the-penny records of everything, and have a set schedule every week. My only concern is that, two years from now, the person reading my file has a very negative opinion about poker and will just say "oh, this guy spent the last two years gambling?" Hopefully I'll be able to address it in my personal statement, but I still worry about how it might negatively affect my application.

I think it has a better chance of coming across as a interesting, positive soft rather than a negative one. I would definitely address the issue straight on in your personal statement and just be as honest as possible with it: You have been planning on law school since undergrad; you are fortunate enough to make a pretty good, steady income doing something that you love; the years after undergrad was the best time in your life to have this experience; and a main reason you did this was to help reduce the debt of law school. If there is any negative effect, I think it would be more likely to happen when interviewing for a big firm, which are filled with older, conservative hiring partners, but even then I don't think it would do too much harm (and will come across as an interesting background to a lot of people).

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic though. It's hard to gauge responses because there might definitely be a stigma associated with poker with older generations. I know my mom absolutely hated when I played poker part-time (I never made enough to consider it as a full time gig though).

fanmingrui wrote:I think I've seen this one before. It doesn't really matter what you do because the important thing is that you beat Teddy KGB, drop out of law school, and move to Vegas to compete in the WSOP.

credited

powerlawyer06 wrote:

TheFactor wrote:

powerlawyer06 wrote:If you do mention poker in your application, resume, or personal statement do not mention "online". Professional poker is a sketchy profession already but "online" takes away all credibility. Most online poker sites are offshore and many of the players don't report their earnings. Tread carefully when mentioning this.

This might be the layman's view of poker, but in reality it doesn't make much sense. Playing online poker in the United States is not illegal and it's actually much easier to get away with not paying taxes if you don't play online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act

I think most adcomms will see it as questionable at best and illegal at worst.

I was under the impression that Act had to do with legality issues of poker sites, and not playing poker online.

Edit: More info: http://www.coinflippoker.com/us-online- ... gality.htm

Maybe the above poster makes a point though. A lot of people may just view online poker in a negative light, even if that's not inaccurate. I'm biased, so it's hard for me to give a typical reaction to playing online as a full-time job. If you do go the poker route, maybe it would be good to address how you had to handle the negative stigma that comes with online poker, even though it is a perfectly legal (assuming that it is in your state) and legitimate profession.

You should know when to fold 'em, and go play hold 'em.

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Richie Tenenbaum wrote:

powerlawyer06 wrote:

TheFactor wrote:

powerlawyer06 wrote:If you do mention poker in your application, resume, or personal statement do not mention "online". Professional poker is a sketchy profession already but "online" takes away all credibility. Most online poker sites are offshore and many of the players don't report their earnings. Tread carefully when mentioning this.

This might be the layman's view of poker, but in reality it doesn't make much sense. Playing online poker in the United States is not illegal and it's actually much easier to get away with not paying taxes if you don't play online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act

I think most adcomms will see it as questionable at best and illegal at worst.

I was under the impression that Act had to do with legality issues of poker sites, and not playing poker online.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7808131

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124459561862800591.html

The feds or at least the SDNY Attorney's Office (where many TLS users would love to work) seem to think that this act alone makes online poker illegal. The courts definitely need to rule on this but why risk it?

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TheFactor wrote:My situation is very unique, but I will try to explain it as succinctly as possible. In addition to being a full-time student at a reputable university, I've played online poker semi-professionally (approx. 25-30 hours/wk) for the last two years. In that time, I've made enough $ to pay for all of my undergrad education and live relatively comfortably.

As the cycle has progressed, I find myself being much more hesitant about taking on six-figures worth of debt. If I can continue playing full-time for the next two years, however, I would easily make enough to pay for most, if not all, of my legal education.

So, my choices are basically the following: Vandy w/ $$ this year or sit out a year or two and reapply.

Numbers are 3.9/167

I know that I want to be a lawyer, so please don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I don't want to play poker for the rest of my life. As far as career goals, I would ideally like to work in a DA's office after graduation, so minimizing debt is important for me.

My only concern is that schools will not look favorably on the fact that I spent two years after graduation playing online poker. Am I overestimating the effect that this will have on my application or is this a legitimate concern? Would I risk an acceptance to a top20 school in the future by opting to sit out for the next two years?

Thanks for your help! And if you vote, please give your reasoning for why you voted the way you did if you don't mind. Also, feel free to PM me for more details.

As a former poker player with a incredibly worse gpa and same lsat....

stars/ftp name? ring/tourny player?

I played professionally for a year online and live. I lived with WCGRider, Jungleman for a summer, am friend with internet pokerz and others.

TheFactor wrote:The law is very clear and unambiguous, which is why these cases went nowhere. Stop citing two-year-old articles.

I was trying to be helpful. Obviously you think its okay because you are an online poker player who has benefited from it. I was trying to argue that an adcomm might not have the same view. You need to consider that the main stream view of online poker may not be as positive as your personal view.

On a personal note: I hope online poker is legalized and regulated (for the tax revenue). I played on and off for two years in UG and made some good money. I just don't think I would mention it on any of my resumes.

powerlawyer06 wrote:

TheFactor wrote:The law is very clear and unambiguous, which is why these cases went nowhere. Stop citing two-year-old articles.

I was trying to be helpful. Obviously you think its okay because you are an online poker player who has benefited from it. I was trying to argue that an adcomm might not have the same view. You need to consider that the main stream view of online poker may not be as positive as your personal view.

On a personal note: I hope online poker is legalized and regulated (for the tax revenue). I played on and off for two years in UG and made some good money. I just don't think I would mention it on any of my resumes.

Adcomms aren't that uptight. I've seen plenty of people get into great schools with stuff on their resumes way more questionable than this (e.g., male stripper). OP even has the opportunity to show how interesting it is in the PS.

FWIW (and it's probably not worth too much)- I listed poker in my interests section in my resume (I'm a 1L). It didn't come up as a negative from meeting with the CSO, 2 mock interviews (with firms) and two actual interviews (with judges). I got offers for judicial internships from both of the interviews with the judges. Obviously listing it under work experience is a completely different ball game, but at least from a hobby standpoint no one pointed it out as a negative.