Top Law Schools

On a variety of measures, it appears to underperform: peer rankings, law firm rankings, PI, federal clerkships. It's NLJ 250 placement isn't that much better than NMVB's and lower than Chicago's while these schools typically do better in the other areas.

Maybe it's not overrated, but instead under-reputed.

niederbomb wrote:On a variety of measures, it appears to underperform: peer rankings, law firm rankings, PI, federal clerkships. It's NLJ 250 placement isn't that much better than NMVB's and lower than Chicago's while these schools typically do better in the other areas.

I don't think most TLSers put Penn in the same league as Chicago. Most of us view Penn as a peer school with Michigan and Virginia (which is probably the most appropriate perception), not some special standalone entity.

In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

tag

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

You forgot IBVeyron.

Well, they were clearly overrated at the beginning of the season last year with a preaseason ranking of 14 in the coaches poll and 19 in the AP poll. They then clearly underperformed during the year while disappointing during the big ten schedule. But they probably finished where they deserved to be, unranked.

Where can I find clerkship info?

Its undergrad certainly is.

What? P is peers with MVBDCN and it outperforms most of them marginally in NLJ250+Clerkships.

FiveSermon wrote:What? P is peers with MVPB and it outperforms most of them marginally in NLJ250+Clerkships.

+1, in fact Penn has better NLJ 250 numbers and places better in clerkships than NYU does. Only thing that it lags behind NYU is PI.

niederbomb wrote:On a variety of measures, it appears to underperform: peer rankings, law firm rankings, PI, federal clerkships. It's NLJ 250 placement isn't that much better than NMVB's and lower than Chicago's while these schools typically do better in the other areas.

Depends on the rating. There are some crazy Penn trolls on here who like to pretend that Penn is a CCN peer. They are very competitive with MVB and possibly the best of that group, which is more consistent with the general perception, I think.

niederbomb wrote:On a variety of measures, it appears to underperform: peer rankings, law firm rankings, PI, federal clerkships. It's NLJ 250 placement isn't that much better than NMVB's and lower than Chicago's while these schools typically do better in the other areas.

Um....couldn't one presume this on rankings alone? Since everything on TLS is based on rankings, that seems to be a well known "fact."

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

egregious Duke trolling.

yngblkgifted wrote:

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

egregious Duke trolling.

I don't get why MV and grouped with P. P has consistently outplaced MV. MV has consistently underplaced many of DCN.

yngblkgifted wrote:

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

egregious Duke trolling.

and/or Cornell trolling

FiveSermon wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

egregious Duke trolling.

I don't get why MV and grouped with P. P has consistently outplaced MV. MV has consistently underplaced many of DCN.

--ImageRemoved--

FiveSermon wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

egregious Duke trolling.

I don't get why MV and grouped with P. P has consistently outplaced MV. MV has consistently underplaced many of DCN.

They fluctuate from year to year, and the differences in placement are generally so small as to be insignificant. And that's why, in terms of overall placement power, the bottom half of the T14 are largely interchangeable. The only real argument to be made is against GULC's inclusion in the group.

For those who recognize MVP as peer schools, Penn is not overrated. Practicing lawyers recognize them as peer schools, and even the staff at those schools recognize them as peers of each other. Seriously, talk to someone at Penn about Virginia, or vice versa, for example. I did.

For those who pretend it's in some way head-and-shoulders above its actual peers, yes, it's overrated.

But you get both perspectives here.

vanwinkle wrote:For those who recognize MVP as peer schools, Penn is not overrated. Practicing lawyers recognize them as peer schools, and even the staff at those schools recognize them as peers of each other. Seriously, talk to someone at Penn about Virginia, or vice versa, for example. I did.

For those who pretend it's in some way head-and-shoulders above its actual peers, yes, it's overrated.

But you get both perspectives here.

+1

beachbum wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:

beachbum wrote:In general terms, it's a peer to MVBDNC. It's probably a little better for Biglaw (particularly in NYC), and probably a little worse for PI.

Edit: Also, IBJoePa.

egregious Duke trolling.

I don't get why MV and grouped with P. P has consistently outplaced MV. MV has consistently underplaced many of DCN.

They fluctuate from year to year, and the differences in placement are generally so small as to be insignificant. And that's why, in terms of overall placement power, the bottom half of the T14 are largely interchangeable. The only real argument to be made is against GULC's inclusion in the group.

But if Penn is at #7, doesn't that put Penn in the top half of the T14?

beachbum wrote:The only real argument to be made is against GULC's inclusion in the group.

And also, this is why Texas shouldn't even be in the T14 discussion IMHO.

dpk711 wrote:But if Penn is at #7, doesn't that put Penn in the top half of the T14?

Top half = HYSCCN
Bottom half = the rest

<---math is not his strong suit

beachbum wrote:

dpk711 wrote:But if Penn is at #7, doesn't that put Penn in the top half of the T14?

Top half = HYSCCN
Bottom half = the rest

<---math is not his strong suit

Well, I don't think it's linear. I mean HYS has got to be like 40% of the hiring strength of the T14.

Patriot1208 wrote:Well, they were clearly overrated at the beginning of the season last year with a preaseason ranking of 14 in the coaches poll and 19 in the AP poll. They then clearly underperformed during the year while disappointing during the big ten schedule. But they probably finished where they deserved to be, unranked.

You are a MORON!!! Penn not Penn State........... ..I got the joke