Top Law Schools

I am just wondering what people thoughts are when it is a good investment or decision to go to law schoo. (for example: good regional school with large scholarship, t-14 with money OR sticker, only HYS, etc)

IBTHYSonly

None
/thread

Only if you want to be lawyer AND get into a great school or get into a good school where you will graduate with very little debt. Alternatively, if you want to be a lawyer and daddy or mommy is a hiring/managing partner at a firm, then just get a JD from wherever and suckle at the teet for the rest of your life.

You want to be a lawyer to make money and not save the world.

swc65 wrote:None
/thread

swc65 wrote:Only if you want to be lawyer AND get into a great school or get into a good school where you will graduate with very little debt. Alternatively, if you want to be a lawyer and daddy or mommy is a hiring/managing partner at a firm, then just get a JD from wherever and suckle at the teet for the rest of your life.

wow your main point is crystal clear here

1. Has a grounded sense of what being an average lawyer is like.

2. Wants to be a lawyer and understands that there is a high likelihood they will be an average lawyer.

3. Is going to the right school for the right price.*

*My ballpark estimate of the right price is something like T200 (0 debt), T50 (80k debt), T18 (120k debt), T12 (150k debt), T6 (200k debt), T3 (500k debt). These debt levels are under the assumption that scholarships have stipulations that are less than median or no stipulations at all.

Man this question seems to get asked every week.
(I guess TLS causes that kind of uncertainty)

There really is no clear answer.

Some people will go to a crap school, do great because they genuinely aren't great at standardized testing yet manage to rock law school exams and their TTTT education will be a thing of the past once they have a successful legal career.

Some will go to a T14 and strike out.

It just depends on the person and factors which are very difficult to predict before you actually get to law school. All you can do is mitigate the risk by either attending a school with strong employment statistics in at least one region of interest or by attending a school for very cheap with little chance of scholarship removal/forced attrition.

As for my personal 'is it worth it' tiers
1) T14 at sticker
2) Strong T30s at sticker (Vandy, UCLA, USC, Fordham, BC/BU, GW) - I'm less risk averse than many on TLS, and these schools do seem to have pretty solid employment stats
3) A state school (not previously included) at in state or less than $30k per year tuition with market dominance (UMN, UF, UA, UI-B, Random State School with no Major Market, UGA, etc)

Right now it seems like the main schools to be weary of are any that feed into Chicago or California. And of course your typical TTTs.

bk187 wrote:1. Has a grounded sense of what being an average lawyer is like.

2. Wants to be a lawyer and understands that there is a high likelihood they will be an average lawyer.

3. Is going to the right school for the right price.*

*My ballpark estimate of the right price is something like T200 (0 debt), T50 (80k debt), T18 (120k debt), T12 (150k debt), T6 (200k debt), T3 (500k debt).

egregious anti-cornell trolling

paulinaporizkova wrote:egregious anti-cornell trolling

You forgot anti-GULC (which I view as Cornell's peer) too. And pro-Cooley.

BTW, I forgot to add that my estimations are under the assumption that scholarship stipulations are top 2/3 or easier.

bk187 wrote:

paulinaporizkova wrote:egregious anti-cornell trolling

You forgot anti-GULC (which I view as Cornell's peer) too. And pro-Cooley.

BTW, I forgot to add that my estimations are under the assumption that scholarship stipulations are top 2/3 or easier.

i don't even include anti-GULC trolling anymore since everyone on TLS is so anti-GULC (it's just assumed)

bk187 wrote:

paulinaporizkova wrote:egregious anti-cornell trolling

You forgot anti-GULC (which I view as Cornell's peer) too. And pro-Cooley.

BTW, I forgot to add that my estimations are under the assumption that scholarship stipulations are top 2/3 or easier.

There is no such thing as anti gulc trolling. Also cornel is definitely better than gulc

The right circumstances are when you don't view it solely as an investment.

Always Credited wrote:The right circumstances are when you don't view it solely as an investment.

I see your username is meant to be ironic

Patriot1208 wrote:Also cornel is definitely better than gulc

Considering GULC's significantly better PI/gov placing, I'm not sure I agree that Cornell's biglaw placement somehow makes it better than GULC.

bk187 wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote:Also cornel is definitely better than gulc

Considering GULC's significantly better PI/gov placing, I'm not sure I agree that Cornell's biglaw placement somehow makes it better than GULC.

Except there is no indication that the increased government placement coincides with increased placement in prestigious government jobs that are on par with biglaw

paulinaporizkova wrote:

swc65 wrote:None
/thread

swc65 wrote:Only if you want to be lawyer AND get into a great school or get into a good school where you will graduate with very little debt. Alternatively, if you want to be a lawyer and daddy or mommy is a hiring/managing partner at a firm, then just get a JD from wherever and suckle at the teet for the rest of your life.

wow your main point is crystal clear here

Studying for exams=angry and rambling.

Patriot1208 wrote:

Always Credited wrote:The right circumstances are when you don't view it solely as an investment.

I see your username is meant to be ironic

If you're going into a statistically poor investment (law school) simply because you want to invest in something, is that a good move?

Instead, if you really want to work as a public defender and attend law school with that goal, is that a good move?

Patriot1208 wrote:Except there is no indication that the increased government placement coincides with increased placement in prestigious government jobs that are on par with biglaw

I'd hazard that people are self-selecting out of gunning for biglaw moreso at GULC than at Cornell and that this affects the percentage of kids getting biglaw. I could be wrong, but I just don't see Cornell's 5-10%ish advantage as being large enough to cover the 20-30% gap for PI/gov. The way I look at it, a higher percentage of GULC kids are going to be debtfree in 10 years (those who have LRAP or biglaw jobs) than Cornell kids.

Cornell may be slightly better than GULC, but I don't think the difference is significant. The school that actually gives me most pause as to whether it should be relegated with MVP or GC is Duke.

The opinion of a pretty debt-averse person (myself):

HYS- @Sticker
CCN- @~1/4 scholarship
The rest of the T14+UT/Vandy/UCLA- @~half-off
At ~T50 school in the region you want to work (or best school in the region)- @~half-off
TTT in region where you want to walk- @full-ride (with no scholarship stipulations besides good standing)

Always Credited wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote:

Always Credited wrote:The right circumstances are when you don't view it solely as an investment.

I see your username is meant to be ironic

If you're going into a statistically poor investment (law school) simply because you want to invest in something, is that a good move?

Instead, if you really want to work as a public defender and attend law school with that goal, is that a good move?

Except this is outside the scope of your initial post. School is an investment, no matter what way you cut it. I wouldn't have gone to college at all if not for the financial investment. Law school can be a good option for some who consider it just a financial investment depending on individual circumstances

Only when you can ED to Northwestern and/or UVA.

Patriot1208 wrote:

Always Credited wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote:

Always Credited wrote:The right circumstances are when you don't view it solely as an investment.

I see your username is meant to be ironic

If you're going into a statistically poor investment (law school) simply because you want to invest in something, is that a good move?

Instead, if you really want to work as a public defender and attend law school with that goal, is that a good move?

Except this is outside the scope of your initial post. School is an investment, no matter what way you cut it. I wouldn't have gone to college at all if not for the financial investment. Law school can be a good option for some who consider it just a financial investment depending on individual circumstances

Generally threads like this preclude the situations where law school is absolutely a good financial investment. Given the little information we were told, I gave the best answer based on what I know - generally, you should not attend law school if you view it purely as an investment.

If you do, you will likely flush out of the profession before your investment pays off. Likely it will never pay off. However, if you view law school as a means to an end, such as working in a nonprofit area, at a PD/DA, at a family firm, or even a big firm because you truly enjoy the work that big firms do, then you're far more likely to succeed in the profession.

Vague questions get vague answers - scope shouldn't be bitched about until something narrows it down, which you did. Thanks.

Always Credited wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote:

Always Credited wrote:

Patriot1208 wrote: I see your username is meant to be ironic

If you're going into a statistically poor investment (law school) simply because you want to invest in something, is that a good move?
Instead, if you really want to work as a public defender and attend law school with that goal, is that a good move?

Except this is outside the scope of your initial post. School is an investment, no matter what way you cut it. I wouldn't have gone to college at all if not for the financial investment. Law school can be a good option for some who consider it just a financial investment depending on individual circumstances

Generally threads like this preclude the situations where law school is absolutely a good financial investment. Given the little information we were told, I gave the best answer based on what I know - generally, you should not attend law school if you view it purely as an investment. If you do, you will likely flush out of the profession before your investment pays off. Likely it will never pay off. However, if you view law school as a means to an end, such as working in a nonprofit area, at a PD/DA, at a family firm, or even a big firm because you truly enjoy the work that big firms do, then you're far more likely to succeed in the profession. Vague questions get vague answers - scope shouldn't be bitched about until something narrows it down, which you did. Thanks.

except that your answer is far more scope limiting than mine which was that you are wrong because in some situations you are wrong. Where as you decided to exclude those situations. Now let's just agree you're wrong and move along.

droges wrote:I am just wondering what people thoughts are when it is a good investment or decision to go to law schoo. (for example: good regional school with large scholarship, t-14 with money OR sticker, only HYS, etc)

Majored in a crap major like History with no job prospects AND gets into a T10 school, preferably with some money.

Law school is a good investment when the choice is between waiting tables and a 50-50 chance at a $160,000/year salary. Otherwise, probably not.