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I've been offered 30,000/year to go to wake and 25,000 to go to Emory. Upon graduation I want to pursue a federal judicial clerkship. I'm married and don't want to suffer too much debt. Thoughts on which I should choose?

Emory, but neither of these schools are great at placing to Article III clerkships. Emory and Wake aren't peers though, and you have nearly the same amount of money.

go with emory, disregard the drop in rankings and go there.

Wake would cost $8k per year. Emory would cost $20k per year. So you would be paying $36k more for the Emory degree, plus much higher COL in Atlanta versus Winston Salem.

Emory places more into Article III clerkships though (something like 9% vs. Wakes 5%). Not sure if there are more recent numbers than those, but that's a pretty decent difference. Neither of these schools are the best for Article III though, but Emory would put you in a better position. Emory is obviously the "better" school ranking wise and on the Clerkships too even though it has been on the decline. Wake is a great school too.

I think the question then becomes how much a better shot at Article III clerkships is worth to you. I'll guess with COL, you will likely pay minimum $45k more for the Emory degree. Is that worth it to you?

What are the stips for both of those scholarships?

P.S. if you withdraw from Wake can you ask them to give me some of your scholarship $$$?

MattThiessen wrote:P.S. if you withdraw from Wake can you ask them to give me some of your scholarship $$$?

same here

Emory is tops for placing you into bankruptcy clerkships. Not Article III obv, but a great opportunity nonetheless.

MattThiessen wrote:Wake would cost $8k per year. Emory would cost $20k per year. So you would be paying $36k more for the Emory degree, plus much higher COL in Atlanta versus Winston Salem.

Emory places more into Article III clerkships though (something like 9% vs. Wakes 5%). Not sure if there are more recent numbers than those, but that's a pretty decent difference. Neither of these schools are the best for Article III though, but Emory would put you in a better position. Emory is obviously the "better" school ranking wise and on the Clerkships too even though it has been on the decline. Wake is a great school too.

I think the question then becomes how much a better shot at Article III clerkships is worth to you. I'll guess with COL, you will likely pay minimum $45k more for the Emory degree. Is that worth it to you?

What are the stips for both of those scholarships?

First, matt, I love the relient k reference (unless you are matt thiesman, then I really like your band). The stipulation from wake is stay in top 2/3 and Emory has no stipulation. You've hit my problem on the head, though. I'm trying to decide if the slightly higher prestige is worth the additional money. If I was going biglaw I would choose Emory immediately. However, Atlanta does have more options in the city than w-s.

emory

Thanks man. I figured its obscure enough that most people wouldn't get it, but that I would feel like I was being clever.

Full disclosure: I am probably going to attend Wake. Primarily b/c my goal is to practice in North Carolina and that's where my wife wants to be. I don't think yours is a clear cut decision. I did vote for Emory though in your poll primarily b/c you seem to be very dead set on clerkships and Emory is beTTTer for that. You could choose either of the schools and I don't think anyone would say you are making a ridiculously dumb decision. In the grand scheme of law school, $45k isn't THAT much $. However, it would be nice to only graduate with $24k in debt by going to Wake, assuming your wife works and pays COL. Off the top of my head, I think this is what the comparison breaks down to:

Emory Pros:
Better clerkship #'s
Better biglaw #'s
More lay prestige
Atlanta would have better job opportunities for your wife
No stipulation on scholarship

Wake Pros:
Cheaper tuition (less debt)
Cheaper COL (less debt)

Let us know what you decide to do! If you choose Wake you should definitely join in on one of the Wake (Wake 2011 or Wake Class of 2014) threads. Best of luck to you!

I was in a similar situation. I really loved Wake but I felt like Winston-Salem was the deciding factor. I liked the small town feel but it seriously restricted my options. Many of the students I heard from had gone to other cities or states for summer work and being married I didn't want to have to do that. Also, I felt like I was severely restricting my wife's job opportunities by going to such a small town. I think that if you feel that Wake and Emory are both equally great options then you should go with Emory because of its location. I don't know about your situation but if your spouse can't find a job fairly quickly in W-S, when they could have in Atlanta, the financial advantage of attending Wake quickly disappears.

excellent post

Uh, since when does Emory place 9% into AIII clerkships?

charlesxavier wrote:I was in a similar situation. I really loved Wake but I felt like Winston-Salem was the deciding factor. I liked the small town feel but it seriously restricted my options. Many of the students I heard from had gone to other cities or states for summer work and being married I didn't want to have to do that. Also, I felt like I was severely restricting my wife's job opportunities by going to such a small town. I think that if you feel that Wake and Emory are both equally great options then you should go with Emory because of its location. I don't know about your situation but if your spouse can't find a job fairly quickly in W-S, when they could have in Atlanta, the financial advantage of attending Wake quickly disappears.

My wife's job situation is definitely going to be interesting. She teaches high school Spanish, a job that is usually in high demand. But, there is no garauntee that a position opens up. In which case substituting is a poor option since they get paid next to nothing.

In comparing cities I like w-s more. It feels cleaner and its size appeals to me personally (I have lived in Nashville and Knoxville TN so it's kind of a lateral move). But if I put aside personal preference it's hard to ignore the significant advantage that Atlanta has as far as opportunities within the city. Since they're home to the state supreme court and federal circuit court they may afford me closer options than w-s.

FreemanRyan wrote:

charlesxavier wrote:I was in a similar situation. I really loved Wake but I felt like Winston-Salem was the deciding factor. I liked the small town feel but it seriously restricted my options. Many of the students I heard from had gone to other cities or states for summer work and being married I didn't want to have to do that. Also, I felt like I was severely restricting my wife's job opportunities by going to such a small town. I think that if you feel that Wake and Emory are both equally great options then you should go with Emory because of its location. I don't know about your situation but if your spouse can't find a job fairly quickly in W-S, when they could have in Atlanta, the financial advantage of attending Wake quickly disappears.

My wife's job situation is definitely going to be interesting. She teaches high school Spanish, a job that is usually in high demand. But, there is no garauntee that a position opens up. In which case substituting is a poor option since they get paid next to nothing.

In comparing cities I like w-s more. It feels cleaner and its size appeals to me personally (I have lived in Nashville and Knoxville TN so it's kind of a lateral move). But if I put aside personal preference it's hard to ignore the significant advantage that Atlanta has as far as opportunities within the city. Since they're home to the state supreme court and federal circuit court they may afford me closer options than w-s.

Atlanta has way more jobs... and way more people fighting for those jobs...
I'm not sure why people always think that bigger cities are better for employment

Disclosure: Wake student here.

Depending on how good your wife's spanish is and how flexible she is, I bet she could snap up a job as an ESL teacher. Latino= second biggest minority in W-S

Nicholasnickynic wrote:

FreemanRyan wrote:

charlesxavier wrote:I was in a similar situation. I really loved Wake but I felt like Winston-Salem was the deciding factor. I liked the small town feel but it seriously restricted my options. Many of the students I heard from had gone to other cities or states for summer work and being married I didn't want to have to do that. Also, I felt like I was severely restricting my wife's job opportunities by going to such a small town. I think that if you feel that Wake and Emory are both equally great options then you should go with Emory because of its location. I don't know about your situation but if your spouse can't find a job fairly quickly in W-S, when they could have in Atlanta, the financial advantage of attending Wake quickly disappears.

My wife's job situation is definitely going to be interesting. She teaches high school Spanish, a job that is usually in high demand. But, there is no garauntee that a position opens up. In which case substituting is a poor option since they get paid next to nothing.

In comparing cities I like w-s more. It feels cleaner and its size appeals to me personally (I have lived in Nashville and Knoxville TN so it's kind of a lateral move). But if I put aside personal preference it's hard to ignore the significant advantage that Atlanta has as far as opportunities within the city. Since they're home to the state supreme court and federal circuit court they may afford me closer options than w-s.

Atlanta has way more jobs... and way more people fighting for those jobs...
I'm not sure why people always think that bigger cities are better for employment

Nicholas, did you or are you attending Emory? I'm just curious about how firsthand you experience has been with Emory since the site you posted earlier has some interesting stuff on it.

Nevermind. I just saw you said you were a wake student.

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Disclosure: Wake student here.

Depending on how good your wife's spanish is and how flexible she is, I bet she could snap up a job as an ESL teacher. Latino= second biggest minority in W-S

Thanks for the info. Her Spanish is great. She lived in venezuela for three years when she was younger and her mom is ecuadorian so she's been exposed to it a lot growing up.

She also majored in it at college.

Blindmelon wrote:Uh, since when does Emory place 9% into AIII clerkships?

You're right. Never. The 9% was for all clerkships, not AIII. I just looked the # up on LST b/c they have all that info broken down, but I think I either misread it or they have it on there wrong.

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Disclosure: Wake student here.

Depending on how good your wife's spanish is and how flexible she is, I bet she could snap up a job as an ESL teacher. Latino= second biggest minority in W-S

8.6% hispanic/latino, so still a very small minority. (#s taken from wikipedia)

My wife is a teacher and she found a job no problem in w-s, but that probably has a lot to do with her experience, qualifications, and subject matter (hard sciences).

Emory probably does very well in US District Courts in Georgia.

Wake Forest probably doesn't do as well due to Duke.

What will your final COA be for either school?

On a side note, you should never pick a school based off of clerkship placement.

Having just checked out the biglaw + clerkship numbers, Emory places about a third to half as many folks as Wake does. Guess that could be worth 30-50K.

Nicholasnickynic wrote:http://emorylawstudent.com/

With all the ridiculous shit I've heard about Emory in the past couple months, if I were you I'd talk to Emory students just to get a feel about what is going on there and if students are happy.

Personally I think you should go to Wake. My disclosure: I'll be going to UNC in the fall, so I have a NC bias. Anyway, Wake will have very low COL, and if you like the area it's worth a shot, esp since Wake has a decent regional rep. However, I have never liked W-S; I planned to go there for my UG until I visited, and then I ended up going to a different school because I didn't like it. Anyway, if you and your wife would feel at home in W-S you could save a lot of money by going there.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Emory probably does very well in US District Courts in Georgia.

Wake Forest probably doesn't do as well due to Duke.

What will your final COA be for either school?

On a side note, you should never pick a school based off of clerkship placement.

Emory will be about 60k and wake 30k. However, if my wife can get a job during my first year at either school we should be able to graduate debt free (we've been out of school for four years and we've managed to save some money). But, we want to start having kids by the time I'm graduating and I know it'd be nicer to start with some money still in the bank for something like a down payment on a house.