Top Law Schools

cabbydui wrote:Neither; no one is putting a gun to your head and telling you that you have to go to LS.

caljordan7 wrote:I was pretty much expecting these responses from TLS users, all doom and gloom, "top 14 or bust", and these are valid points, something I grapple with myself. I actually didn't do poorly on my LSAT and have gotten into much better schools, but I have no way of paying for them. Would you like to co-sign on my 200k loan? As a Canadian citizen, I can't get a US loan, and Canadian banks only give out 80k max (27k per year of school).

Let's say I pass the bar and graduate top 5-10% of my class, just a hypothetical...are my prospects looking any better? I also think graduating with 50-70k of debt rather than 150-200k of debt is an advantage too, no?

Bill Cosby wrote:

caljordan7 wrote:I was pretty much expecting these responses from TLS users, all doom and gloom, "top 14 or bust", and these are valid points, something I grapple with myself. I actually didn't do poorly on my LSAT and have gotten into much better schools, but I have no way of paying for them. Would you like to co-sign on my 200k loan? As a Canadian citizen, I can't get a US loan, and Canadian banks only give out 80k max (27k per year of school).

Let's say I pass the bar and graduate top 5-10% of my class, just a hypothetical...are my prospects looking any better? I also think graduating with 50-70k of debt rather than 150-200k of debt is an advantage too, no?

90% of people won't graduate in the top 10%. I know that's sounds pedantic, but it's a point people really tend to gloss over.

caljordan7 wrote:I was pretty much expecting these responses from TLS users, all doom and gloom, "top 14 or bust", and these are valid points, something I grapple with myself. I actually didn't do poorly on my LSAT and have gotten into much better schools, but I have no way of paying for them. Would you like to co-sign on my 200k loan? As a Canadian citizen, I can't get a US loan, and Canadian banks only give out 80k max (27k per year of school).

Let's say I pass the bar and graduate top 5-10% of my class, just a hypothetical...are my prospects looking any better? I also think graduating with 50-70k of debt rather than 150-200k of debt is an advantage too, no?

mpj_3050 wrote:So you want to leave Canada, which is infinitely better than America, to attend Whittier or Thomas Jefferson? For the love of God retake the LSAT. It has nothing to do with being an elitist, which I'm certainly not. Both of these schools are absolutely terrible choices even with scholarships. I know someone who attends Whittier and he says it is the worst decision he has ever made; many of his classmates share the sentiment.

arhmcpo wrote:

caljordan7 wrote:I was pretty much expecting these responses from TLS users, all doom and gloom, "top 14 or bust", and these are valid points, something I grapple with myself. I actually didn't do poorly on my LSAT and have gotten into much better schools, but I have no way of paying for them. Would you like to co-sign on my 200k loan? As a Canadian citizen, I can't get a US loan, and Canadian banks only give out 80k max (27k per year of school).

Let's say I pass the bar and graduate top 5-10% of my class, just a hypothetical...are my prospects looking any better? I also think graduating with 50-70k of debt rather than 150-200k of debt is an advantage too, no?

Hmm, I think if you graduate top 5-10% from just about any school you should be able to get a job...but Whittier and Thomas Jefferson truly test my theory.... I understand your loan situation is tough - why are you applying to CA schools who tend to have high tuition and extremely high COL when there are plenty of good schools with much lower costs in other states????

I think you could get midlaw (maybe) in LA with top 5% from these schools, at Jefferson your job prospects might be better than Whittier, at least for the SD market, otherwise best route is to go small firm (I'm talking like solo practitioner small) and make yourself indispensable so they don't care where you went to school.

I'm not T14 or bust at all - I went to a lower ranked school to save a ton of money because I didn't want loans - so I know pretty well where your coming from. I just have lived and worked in socal my whole life and have a pretty good understanding of the reputation of these schools. Have you tried negotiating for a full ride? A full ride anywhere is not a bad deal.

mpj_3050 wrote:So you want to leave Canada, which is infinitely better than America, to attend Whittier or Thomas Jefferson? For the love of God retake the LSAT. It has nothing to do with being an elitist, which I'm certainly not. Both of these schools are absolutely terrible choices even with scholarships. I know someone who attends Whittier and he says it is the worst decision he has ever made; many of his classmates share the sentiment.

Edit: But since you asked...Whittier.

caljordan7 wrote: I appreciate the genuine response. I actually graduated from Cal, with a good GPA and decent LSAT, so the thought of ending up at Whittier or TJ is a bit depressing, but it's the reality of my situation given my status. I want to stay in California, and if that's sacrificing going to a better school, so be it. I realize I'm not going to graduate with a 160k starting job, 95% of the people on this site won't, even those "top 14" supporters, so I'm realistic about the job prospects. But if people we're going to these schools and NONE of them were employed, as some people suspect, these schools wouldn't be in business. I agree with you TJ might be better job prospects wise, and I actually think it's regional reputation is getting better, especially with the new building.

About negotiating scholarships, how realistic is it? Can I go from 60% ride to full, is that negotiable?

caljordan7 wrote:

arhmcpo wrote:

caljordan7 wrote:
I appreciate the genuine response. I actually graduated from Cal, with a good GPA and decent LSAT, so the thought of ending up at Whittier or TJ is a bit depressing, but it's the reality of my situation given my status. I want to stay in California, and if that's sacrificing going to a better school, so be it. I realize I'm not going to graduate with a 160k starting job, 95% of the people on this site won't, even those "top 14" supporters, so I'm realistic about the job prospects. But if people we're going to these schools and NONE of them were employed, as some people suspect, these schools wouldn't bebecause of uninformed/overconfident 0Ls are somehow still in business. I agree with you TJ might be better job prospects wise, and I actually think it's regional reputation is getting better, especially with the new building.

About negotiating scholarships, how realistic is it? Can I go from 60% ride to full, is that negotiable?

caljordan7 wrote:
Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

caljordan7 wrote:

mpj_3050 wrote:So you want to leave Canada, which is infinitely better than America, to attend Whittier or Thomas Jefferson? For the love of God retake the LSAT. It has nothing to do with being an elitist, which I'm certainly not. Both of these schools are absolutely terrible choices even with scholarships. I know someone who attends Whittier and he says it is the worst decision he has ever made; many of his classmates share the sentiment.

Edit: But since you asked...Whittier.

Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

caljordan7 wrote:

mpj_3050 wrote:So you want to leave Canada, which is infinitely better than America, to attend Whittier or Thomas Jefferson? For the love of God retake the LSAT. It has nothing to do with being an elitist, which I'm certainly not. Both of these schools are absolutely terrible choices even with scholarships. I know someone who attends Whittier and he says it is the worst decision he has ever made; many of his classmates share the sentiment.

Edit: But since you asked...Whittier.

Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

caljordan7 wrote:
About negotiating scholarships, how realistic is it? Can I go from 60% ride to full, is that negotiable?

joemoviebuff wrote:

caljordan7 wrote:
About negotiating scholarships, how realistic is it? Can I go from 60% ride to full, is that negotiable?

TJ's reputation is that they are extremely stingy with scholarship money, so I'd doubt they'd give you more. Your scholarship also probably came with some hefty, unrealistic stipulations, so if you don't hit top 1/3 or whatever you won't have it for the remainder of your time there, and it will be basically just as expensive as the other schools you can't afford right now.

Do you mind if I inquire what your LSAT score is?

caljordan7 wrote:Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

AP-375 wrote:

caljordan7 wrote:Have you lived in Canada? I'm actually from Toronto, which is actually a great city, but I went to Berkeley, and I love California, and it's been my home for 5 years now, so I want to stay...okay, so I retake my LSAT and do marginally better, get into better schools I still can't afford.....alternatives?

Here are TEN alternatives, some better than others, but they exist, and they will all get you to a better law school:
1) Work for a few years, save a ton of money to make up the loan difference
2) Retake the LSAT and do significantly better and apply somewhere that gives you a full ride
3) Retake and reapply and do somewhat better and apply somewhere that gives you enough to be covered by your limited loan
4) Find someone, an employer, relative, homeless person, to co-sign, and go somewhere else
5) Go back to Berkeley, get a graduate degree, then apply somewhere else
6) Marry an American, get better loan options
7) Get a significant other, and have him or her co-sign
8 ) Go to a Canadian law school
9) Join Teach For America or the Peace Corps or whatever, do service for two years, come back, have better options
10) Move to Montana, live in the Bob Marshall Wilderness for a year, clear your head, then choose one of the above