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I received 10K per year from William and Mary and 12K a year from Notre Dame. I have little desire for Big Law; I hope to do PI work; specifically child advocacy/education law. Although I prefer to work in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic, the latter of which W&M feeds into, I'm not totally opposed to settling in the Midwest, where ND's prospects are the strongest, although, it seems to have somewhat more of a national reach than its T30 peers. I thrive in small town environs, which both schools exemplify. Cost of living is equally low at both schools, however tuition at ND will be 7K a year more costly. I'm somehwhat debt-averse due to my career aspirations, though I have no undergrad debt and my folks are willing to help me out. Which school would be a better fit given my preferences?

ND easily IMO.

Have you visited each?

sundance95 wrote:Have you visited each?

+1. The difference in placement and debt is rather small. Might as well choose based on your feel for each school.

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

Blindmelon wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

+1

also, Virginia is like, way better than Indiana

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Why do you say this considering that W&M is similarly-ranked and somewhat cheaper (and has less shitty weather)?

I did visit W&M for ASW and absolutely loved the school's culture, location, etc.; I had a very positive gut feeling overall...hope to visit ND in early April.

I am still waiting on schools where my admissions prospects range from decent (BC, BU, WUSTL) to not a snowball's chance in Hell (Penn, Cornell, GULC PT, Duke). I am also riding out Vandy's WL. My #'s are 3.82/164 and I'm toying with retaking in June in order to stand a better chance of getting off...if I end up scoring 170+, I might as well reapply as early as possible next cycle and realistically shoot for T14.

If you haven't visited yet, know that the small-townness is extremely different between Williamsburg and Notre Dame. South Bend is much more isolated. Williamsburg isn't far from some urban areas.

Borhas wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

+1

also, Virginia is like, way better than Indiana

i have to agree with the W&M choice. stay on the east coast, it will put you in a comparable stace upon graduation (even though you dont want biglaw)

Borhas wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

+1

also, Virginia is like, way better than Indiana

Ever been here?

Nonetheless, given your location goals, I would probably choose W&M as well.

Bumi wrote:If you haven't visited yet, know that the small-townness is extremely different between Williamsburg and Notre Dame. South Bend is much more isolated. Williamsburg isn't far from some urban areas.

If you count Richmond and Norfolk as "urban," W&M is about an hour away. If you want to count REAL urban areas, ND is actually much closer to Chicago than W&M is to DC.

South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.

mettasutta wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Why do you say this considering that W&M is similarly-ranked and somewhat cheaper (and has less shitty weather)?

I did visit W&M for ASW and absolutely loved the school's culture, location, etc.; I had a very positive gut feeling overall...hope to visit ND in early April.

I am still waiting on schools where my admissions prospects range from decent (BC, BU, WUSTL) to not a snowball's chance in Hell (Penn, Cornell, GULC PT, Duke). I am also riding out Vandy's WL. My #'s are 3.82/164 and I'm toying with retaking in June in order to stand a better chance of getting off...if I end up scoring 170+, I might as well reapply as early as possible next cycle and realistically shoot for T14.

I didnt read that you prefer mid-atlantic, which in that case W&M maybe is the right choice. ND has better mobility and still puts about 25% in biglaw I believe. Overall since ND feeds into multiple markets I would feel a bit more comfortable getting A JOB (meaning any) from ND than W&M, but again, if you're mostly interested in Mid-Atlantic region W&M might be the correct choice.

fetalposition wrote:If you count Richmond and Norfolk as "urban," W&M is about an hour away. If you want to count REAL urban areas, ND is actually much closer to Chicago than W&M is to DC.

Yes, I do count Richmond and Norfolk as urban. "Urban" is a word with a specific definition.

Bumi wrote:

fetalposition wrote:If you count Richmond and Norfolk as "urban," W&M is about an hour away. If you want to count REAL urban areas, ND is actually much closer to Chicago than W&M is to DC.

Yes, I do count Richmond and Norfolk as urban. "Urban" is a word with a specific definition.

Yes, well, if we're going strictly by definitions, South Bend is considered urban. As someone who lives there, let me tell you, "urban" isn't the first word that comes to mind when describing the place.

OGR3 wrote:South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.

Lived here for four years and love it, you should probably come before you say things like that.

FWIW W&M has a better football team

I absolutely loved WM when I visited - ND was just okay. I think they're peer schools by most metrics. I'd stay cheap.

William and Mary for the Mid-Atlantic and Carolinas. Overall the schools are similar so you might as well go to the one that puts you in the region where you want to practice.

If I get into Vandy off of the waitlist, would it be worth attending even if I would most likely have to pay sticker? I'm sure scholarship funds would be all dried up by the summer, even if I do really well on the June LSAT. Would Vandy be better for PI in the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast than my current options?

Depends on how debt adverse you are. IMO Vandy is the best non-t14 in the nation.

Blindmelon wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.

Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

I had heard that the state of Virginia (and W&M) was notoriously difficult to get in state tuition for second and third years..

AreJay711 wrote:William and Mary for the Mid-Atlantic and Carolinas. Overall the schools are similar so you might as well go to the one that puts you in the region where you want to practice.

FWIW: Class of 2010- ND 23.84% NLJ 250, W&M 15.42%...I know you said you didn't want biglaw but to the extent that biglaw jobs are proxies for how the rest of the class is doing, 8% is a fairly large gap.

From what I've heard, W&M is very PI-focused. I don't know anything about ND's public interest program, but having more of a focus on PI could be a factor in favor of W&M.

ndirish2010 wrote:

OGR3 wrote:South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.

Lived here for four years and love it, you should probably come before you say things like that.

I did.